Nirvana 2: How I learned to stop worrying and love the later list
Hi folks, just thought I'd share some thoughts of how I think I'm going to start using the good old Later list (which I was not a fan of at all in N v1) especially now Elbert has implemented a unified next list in build 80.
So.. with the new way we can set the status of individual tasks within a project, we can mark individual project tasks as later, even though other tasks are in focus or on the next list.
This means that I can add upcoming tasks to projects that I aren't able to work on until some or all of the current tasks in next / focus are complete and mark them as later. This way these tasks are shown within a project but will not show up in the unified next list until I move them out of later.
My understanding is that having tasks that aren't next actions in your system isn't strictly GTD task management - this is over in wherever you're doing your natural planning, but this seems to be a great practical way of keeping a view of what's coming up and doing some simple project planning within Nirvana.
What do you think?
BTW: There's a known issue that if you set your preferences to display the later list, it doesn't persist between sessions and you have to set it again. Hopefully this will be sorted soon.
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32 Posted by justin on 18 Dec, 2010 05:50 AM
i think the current nirvana doesn't let you have an action in a project AND be marked as someday/later. the new nirvana beta does let you do that i think.
33 Posted by kevinelms on 18 Dec, 2010 03:59 PM
@proximo Justin seems to understand. I have tasks that are actionable and some maybe many more non-actionable. Non-actionable because I might be waiting on someone but as soon as that someone does his/her part, I have 10 tasks that could be done. I want to see them in my project in my weekly review. So, taking out the Later option, how do you categorize them in Nirvana? At first I thought you do not choose anything (next action, someday, dated,waiting for). However, you cannot do that either. At first I thought that was a hindrance but I kind of like that too. I cannot enter it without it being at least semi-processed. I hope this clears up what I'd like to accomplish. Action dependencies, later list or no bucket selection would be the only things that could solve my problem.
Like Justin said, If I have 10 things to do, I don't want to see the next 1. Actually, if that 1 sequential task were filtered properly it could work but it does not now. So if I have sequential list selected. That 1 task is 4 hours of time and large effort. I have only 2 hours to spare and I am spent mentally for the day, After filtering for my situation, that top task drops off to show my next sequential task that fits my filter. That would be awesome.
34 Posted by Proximo on 18 Dec, 2010 10:17 PM
@Kevin,
All task in a Project are actionable or they would not be listed. If a task is waiting on someone else to do the actual work, it's still an actionable task, but just not actionable by you.
Any project that I have a waiting task that relies on someone else to do it, shows up on my Project list. During my weekly review, I take notice of these task and push the person who needs to do it.
I don't know if it's just the way I see things, but managing my Projects is easy. If I truly have sequential task on a project, it does not matter if the Next Action does not fit my current Time, Energy and Context. I must get that task done first before I can tackle the one below it.
If you have projects with parallel task, this is where Nirvana falls short. In this case you could have another task that can be done without the need of completing the current Next Action. Some are asking for a way to simply flag which task are Next Actions, in order for parallel task to get equal billing when considering what to work on.
So maybe with the ability to select multiple Next Actions for a Project that has Parallel task, everyone can get what they want.
Most of my projects are sequential and I currently treat any project that has task that can be done in parallel as sequential task. This just keeps things simple for me and I always move my project forward with no issues. Having the ability to see all Next Actions of a Project would be a major plus, especially if you deal with that type of Project allot.
Most of us will have a combination of both, so the ability to show the Next Actions we want would be a good feature.
35 Posted by sfriis on 16 Jan, 2011 12:28 PM
@Neil R Fantastic workaround for getting a "true UNL" I will adobt this use of "later"
Now Im able to see all of my "parallel" tasks from my projects in my Next list (using unified list view).
I just do as you said:
In all my projects I move tasks to "later" if I dont want them to show up in my "unified next list) - and I get the same result as @Proximo wants (mark a task in a project as a next task)
Only problem now is that I need to review my projects every time i finish a project-task and move a task from later to next inside the project, because the next-sequential-task has been marked as a later task. But I guess that is how GTD where ment to work: When you finish a task (project) then decide what is your next task(project).
An idea for a future release could be that you can flag a task(project) with a "P"-flag - indicating that it is a parallel task(project) that also should show up in the unified next list together with the next undone action(project) on top of the project-list.
36 Posted by Proximo on 17 Jan, 2011 02:36 PM
@sfriss
I am glad you found a solution that works for you.
It makes me sad to see people HACK Nirvana to accomplish something that should be built in. The best thing I liked about Nirvana was it's true roots to GTD and this prevented people from having to hack it for GTD.
The Later list is NOT GTD and this was one of the worst features Nirvana implemented. They decided to keep it as an option, but I still feel they lost their core GTD roots because of it.
Too many people spend a lot of time trying to over complicate GTD and this takes away the focus from actually Getting Things Done.
David Allen recently made a comment on GTD Times about this and I agree with him 100%. I keep GTD simple because it was designed to be simple. What made GTD work for so many people was the simplicity of the system and there was no need to over manage it.
People can do what works for them, but I encourage everyone to really look at what they are doing, how much complexity and thinking they are adding to the GTD process. Spend less time on your system and more time on doing.
I am not an expert in GTD, but I have been using it for several years. I currently teach GTD to co-workers and I recently did my first GTD training seminar to a group of people.
I would never teach the use of a Later list. I understand that some people are trying to use it to make up for some missing features. I have found that using only sequential next actions for my projects makes GTD simpler for me and the more I realize this the more I feel I don't need to deal with Parallel task. One Next Action per project works as David Allen teaches it. I keep things moving forward and focus my energy on doing and not managing.
If you have a very complex project. You should be using the correct tool such as Microsoft Project.
Here is the post on complexity by David Allen. http://goo.gl/3GY11
Just some thoughts.