Competition
I'm not sure if we are allowed to post about other GTD-oriented
task managers, feel free to delete this thread if it violates
anything.
Recently I was searching Vimeo for the term GTD, and look what I
found: SmartyTask for
GTD
I immediately thought of Nirvana, and then wanted to know what
would Proximo think. =D
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92 Posted by PeterW on 11 Aug, 2010 01:25 PM
Don't know if you've thought about this guys, but over time Nirvana will in all likelihood evolve because paying users will request more functionality - I can't see it being locked down for all time with no enhancements. Which will probably mean that features you may regard as "non GTD" creeping in.
Support Staff 93 Posted by Elbert McLaughlin on 11 Aug, 2010 07:17 PM
@peterw - If I may rebut a little... while we consider all of the feedback and requests for features, we are not spineless. :-)
Our internal wishlist of features and enhancements have mainly to do with usability, compatibility and interoperability. The list is about a mile and half long and we'll never get through them all. But we do periodically sift through them and pick off the top as time/resources permit.
iPhone, Android, iPad, Widgets, Mashups, Twitter DM, Google Apps integration, Basecamp integration, Offline Mode, Feeds, Import/Export options (the more the merrier), Internationalization, CSS overrides, Themes... while these have little to do with the methodology of GTD, they have everything to do with enhancing each user's preferences for interacting with Nirvana.
As I always tell my friends who don't (yet) believe in GTD, there are plenty of vanilla task list apps out there, and we would be foolish to compete in that space. Too many freebies, and the top paid apps are quite good.
We're stuck on GTD. And we believe that this a good thing.
94 Posted by Proximo on 11 Aug, 2010 07:42 PM
Good stuff Elbert.
Nirvana is great and the Nirvana team is great.
Listen to what we have to say but don't always do what we ask. There has to be a line that the Nirvana team must not cross and it's up to you to decide where that line is.
Remember that if you want to be successful, quit trying to please everyone.
We appreciate you listening, but I also know you won't change anything if it move Nirvana in a direction you do not want it to go. That's a good thing.
Support Staff 95 Posted by Elbert McLaughlin on 11 Aug, 2010 08:04 PM
Hey Folks -
I thought it high time that we updated our "What's Next?" page. It's now organized around what we're actively working on, what we're prototyping, and what we're yammering about.
http://help.nirvanahq.com/faqs/site-updates/whats-next
96 Posted by kai on 11 Aug, 2010 08:44 PM
Thanks for sharing. Evernote Integration - now that'd be amazing.
97 Posted by Bob on 11 Aug, 2010 09:06 PM
Thanks for keeping us informed. Great work !
98 Posted by Proximo on 11 Aug, 2010 10:22 PM
Sounds like a plan. A BIG ONE!
99 Posted by PeterW on 12 Aug, 2010 12:24 AM
@elbert,
Sorry if I've hit a raw nerve there! I was actually trying to say to other users that Nirvana will in all likelihood evolve over time to include features that some may regard as being "non GTD". The "Later" list is a good example.
But now that you mention it, I do get the general impression that a small group of vocal users are trying to set your direction by stamping on any suggestions that don't fit within their narrow view of how GTD should be done. The continuing "soap boxing" about specific issues (e.g. the "Later" list) at every opportunity, even in response to questions from brand new users asking simple questions, is a bit overboard.
So perhaps I am saying that Nirvana needs a bit more spine in dealing with the local and very vocal cheer squad.
Just my thoughts.
Cheers,
Peter.
100 Posted by Bob on 12 Aug, 2010 01:00 AM
@ PeterW : The "Later" list is NOT something that goes against the GTD principles. David Allen has said many times the Someday/maybe list could be divided in several lists. He just developed the concept of separating active tasks and projects, and stuff you put aside. But the application of this is certainly not to limite one'self to a unique list !
101 Posted by PeterW on 12 Aug, 2010 01:51 AM
@Bob - I agree with you. Others don't.
102 Posted by Lasares on 12 Aug, 2010 07:05 AM
@Elbert: thanks for the update.
103 Posted by Proximo on 12 Aug, 2010 04:20 PM
@Bob & Peter,
I only want the option to turn off the Later list. Not saying it's not useful for you, but I see it as something I don't need because it's built into GTD as I implement it.
Can't think of a single GTD app that has added their own list to the core GTD methodology. Not saying it can't or should not be done, but give me the option to turn it off and get back the basic look of my GTD list.
104 Posted by Bob on 12 Aug, 2010 04:47 PM
@ Proximo : That's fair enough :-)
105 Posted by Photon on 17 Aug, 2010 11:50 PM
I've suggested this before and I'll suggest it again. Why not just add the functionality for members to create their own lists and sub-lists.
From what I see, Proximo is against "Later" being a standalone list, rather it should be a subset of "Someday/Maybe".
So rather than having a debate on whether the "Later" or "Later on" or "In my dreams" or "After I reach nirvana" list should exist or not, just provide the functionality for each member to create his own lists.
That way, if I wanted the later list, I'd just create it, if I don't, then I don't. Simple as that.
The core lists (the main GTD lists) should always exist (inbox, waiting for, someday/maybe, next actions, projects...), on the other hand, any additional list, is up to the member to add or delete.
Hope this helps. :)
106 Posted by Proximo on 18 Aug, 2010 08:58 PM
@Photon,
I hear what you are saying but in my experience this is what causes a tool to become too complicated and potentially hinder your productivity. In Toodledo, most users spent more time messing with their tool because it allowed you the freedom to do just about anything you wanted. Instead of getting things done, most people where just tweaking their system consistently.
GTD is simple and the UI should also be simple. Having some options for people to toggle is fine, but I don't think Nirvana should stray away from the GTD core fundamentals. GTD works for a reason and the core list is all David Allen uses for making it all work.
For the record, I don't think Later should be a subset of Someday/Maybe. Later is already built into the Next list. Anything that I am not currently working on that is actionable is by default "Later". :-) It's always been there. I just don't see a need to extract them out and create another list for me to look at when trying to figure out what to do. It's either actionable or not. They all have their place in GTD and the "Later" task already live in my Next list. If I am not working on it right now, it's something I must do Later.
DARN IT Photon. You have me talking about "Later" again and I don't want too anymore. :-)
Going to a happy place now.
107 Posted by Terminado on 20 Aug, 2010 06:35 PM
When "Later" came on the scene, I used it for a couple of days and liked it. (I'll tell you why in a minute). I listened to the arguments against it and removed every task from Later and put most in Scheduled. I understand why we don't "need" Later, and I have been functioning without it.
But I still feel like something is missing.
Maybe it's the way I work. Maybe it's that I'm not consistent with my weekly review. But here's what is going on: I choose tasks from Next (and Projects) and mark them Today. I don't finish them today so they stay in Today, EVEN THOUGH I REALIZE I WON'T GET TO THEM TODAY OR PROBABLY TOMORROW. I keep them there because I DON'T WANT TO FORGET ABOUT THEM..
if I schedule everything, I find things backing up on me and I have to re-schedule them, sometimes many times, and that's not good.
I don't want to put them back into NEXT because this is a very large list and I'm afraid the task will get lost there and while I'm pretty sure I can't do it today, that may change (I may get some free time or a call from someone the task involves and all of a sudden I want to/need to do it).
So. . . I like keeping things "in front of me" but not necessarily in Today. I want Today to be for today (or tomorrow) and not a queue for "soon" and I want Next to be for things I want to do but I'm not sure when. Later kind of filled the gap between the two.
I know a more thorough (and consistent) weekly review is probably 80% of the solution, but I like having other options.
So there.
108 Posted by Proximo on 20 Aug, 2010 06:52 PM
@Terminado
Understood.
All I can say is that the weekly review would prevent this, but I understand that you like it and thats fine. Seriously it is. :-)
I have a large Next list, but I have no problems with thinking something would get lost. I select my Area of Focus, I filter by the Time and Energy I have at the moment and then use my Horizons of Focus to select from the much smaller list of things I can be doing right now. If I want to filter further by Context I can.
This means I am always dealing with a smaller list and it's a list that shows me what makes sense in my given situation to work on. I move the ones I want to focus on to the "Today List" and get to work.
This does not mean the task are due today, but it's what I will be focused on. If I have a task that I did not complete by the end of the day, I will leave it there if I will work on it first thing in the morning. If I know I won't be getting back to it the next day, I remove the star and let it go back to the Next list.
Again, it does not get lost in the next list because I do my Weekly Review and more importantly, my daily scans based on Time, Energy, Context, Priority. I can always identify what makes sense for me to work on at the moment.
I use Scheduled items as reminders. I will then determine if it's something I can work on at the moment and if I can't, I put them back into the Next list. I hardly ever re-schedule a task. Honestly I don't schedule many to begin with. I only do this if I think a task is best for me to do on a particular day. One example is that I have a weekly meeting at work that covers certain items we discuss. If a task is related to one of these items, I will schedule it a day before the meeting to remind me about it.
It's not due that day, but If I can get it done before the meeting, it will be most useful to me. If I can't get it done, it not a big deal.
We all work in different ways. Nothing wrong with doing what works best for you. If Later makes sense to someone, I think it's cool. I just want the option to turn it off because it breaks up my GTD Nirvana. :-)
Back on the "Today List". I am fine with the name but some have suggested that it be renamed to "Focus" because some people keep thinking the items on that list are Due that day and that's not true.
Just a thought.
Support Staff 109 Posted by Elbert McLaughlin on 20 Aug, 2010 07:00 PM
slap! ;-)
Support Staff 110 Posted by Elbert McLaughlin on 20 Aug, 2010 07:02 PM
ooopsss.... i meant that for another thread. sorry prox.
111 Posted by Proximo on 20 Aug, 2010 07:04 PM
@Elbert,
You are following me. It's creepy.
Can you see me wave my hands?
112 Posted by Elurven on 20 Aug, 2010 07:05 PM
@Proximo
"Focus" instead of "Today" is not a bad idea, not bad at all. On some level, this would reduce the stress of not finishing tasks today that are put into "Today".
113 Posted by Terminado on 20 Aug, 2010 07:08 PM
I like the idea of calling it "Focus" but I can also see that as permission to keep the list bigger than one can manage.
I am not using Later, just explaining its appeal. I think I will spend some time getting better at using the filtering process you use: Time, Energy, Context, Priority and a more thoughtful daily scan.
Also, I notice from another of your posts, you have more Areas of Focus than I do, giving you yet another layer. Have to think on this. . .
114 Posted by Elurven on 20 Aug, 2010 07:42 PM
It is becoming more and more clear to me that I am far from a full fledged GTD:er but it's the thought and effort that counts... I hope :-). But I believe that I'm getting better all the time and I tell myself that when the Unified Next List is in place, I will reach Nirvana with Nirvana (not necessarily a pun intended). Then it's time to go on a slapping spree ;-)...
115 Posted by Proximo on 20 Aug, 2010 07:47 PM
@Terminado
I adjust what I do if something is not working or if I find a great idea from someone in the community. I started adding more Areas because I realized some task felt generic in my Personal area.
Now it's easier for me to choose an Area of Responsibility that is more precise for what I am trying to work on. This is not something I was doing at first, so I am still changing and growing too. :-)
116 Posted by Proximo on 20 Aug, 2010 07:51 PM
@Elurven,
The important thing is that you are doing something to better your productivity. I am still learning and changing, so it's not like I reached a level of Nirvana myself. :-)
When the Unified Next List is launched, there is going to be a SLAP Party. Everyone within Slapping distance are automatically invited. I may need to wear some gloves.
David McLaughlin closed this discussion on 21 Jan, 2011 02:48 PM.