Un-today should schedule the item for tomorrow
Morten Postrup
via web
One of the most important actions is to browse the today-list and postpone items for later. Un-clicking the today-status should imho schedule the item for tomorrow.
Unclicking the item, opening the item, choosing schedule for date of tomorrow is way to timely.
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2 Posted by gregoe86 on 24 Aug, 2010 06:28 PM
I agree entirely! I find myself going through this precise process all the time!
3 Posted by Keith on 24 Aug, 2010 08:19 PM
I actually came here looking for the right way to do this. I've finally started using Nirvana in earnest and when I uncheck things from "Today" I was wondering if there's any way to say "do this tomorrow" instead of just putting the task in an amorphous "next" list.
4 Posted by haeffb on 25 Aug, 2010 02:17 PM
I disagree.
The most important task when I'm in the Today list is to scan the list for what I'm going to do next. Anything that I don't get done "Today" will automatically show up there tomorrow when tomorrow gets here. Spending too much time fiddling over whether I want to do this thing "today" or "tomorrow" or "next Tuesday" keeps me from actually getting things done.
5 Posted by Proximo on 25 Aug, 2010 04:57 PM
I agree 100% with haeffb
I think it's simply a confusion on how the Today list is used.
When you scan your Next list to determine what you want to work on, you star it and it shows up in the Today list. The Today list is not a list of task that are due today, but a list of task you will focus on Today. If a task does have a due date, it will show up on that day in the Today list as expected but most task will not have a due date assigned to them.
You may or may not get them done that day. For the task that you don't get done that day, you can leave them in the list if you know you will tackle them tomorrow. When tomorrow arrives, it will be right where you need them in your Today list. Again, a list of things to focus on for Today.
If you have a particular task that is not done that day and you know you will not have a chance to work on it in the next several days, you can click on the Star button to make it leave the list and back to the Next list where it belongs.
GTD is not about figuring out what day each task should be worked on. GTD is about filtering your list by Time, Energy and Context. This will be different every time you scan your list. You can scan your list several times a day and the situation will be different every time. When scanning your list in this way, nothing will fall through the cracks and you will also see the best task for you to be doing.
The task that was not completed in your Today list may not be the right task to work on tomorrow. If it is, leave it there and if it's not, remove it from the Today list and let it go back to the Next list.
Scanning your Next list by Time, Energy and Context will always show you what are the right task for you to consider and the task that went back into your Next list will get the same attention as all the others.
Let GTD help you decide what is the right thing to work on and you will find that nothing falls through the cracks. Don't always try to predict what day is best for a task to be worked on unless it's due that day.
I could go into this further with examples, but I hope it's making a little more sense.
6 Posted by Proximo on 25 Aug, 2010 05:18 PM
@Keith,
"instead of just putting the task in an amorphous "next" list"
Keith,
The Next list is anything but amorphous. If you are assigning your task the proper information, the Next list is a very organized and structured list. This is why GTD works so well.
You need to assign the following for each task in order for GTD to work as it should.
Area of Focus: Determines the Location or a specific responsibility.
Time: How much time you estimate it will take to complete the task.
Energy: How much mental energy is required for the task.
Context: Tags are context in Nirvana which represent the resource required for the task.
Priority: Prirorities in GTD are based on your Horizons of Focus and are not hard coded, but dynamic. This is where sorting comes into play.
Now that every task has Structure, the next list is easily filtered to show you what is the right task to work on.
If I am at work, I first filter by my "Work" area to see only task related to work.
Now when looking at my Next list, I may have 100+ task to choose from. I have Medium energy in the mornings, so I filter by Medium energy and get the list smaller. I have about 2 hours before I have to attend a meeting, so I now filter by Time of 2 hours or less and my list is once again smaller.
Let's say in the morning I like to tackle my emails. I now filter by the Tag (Context) "email" and now my list is much smaller. Let's say I am looking at a possible of 20 task that fit these settings.
I now Sort them by priority based on my Horizons of Focus. I don't need to Sort them all, but maybe just 10 of them. Now that I know the top 10 task I can work on, I may choose the Top 3 by selecting the Star button. Now I have 3 task that I can focus on in my Today list that are the right task to work on at the moment.
This process continues through your day as you complete task and determine new task to focus on. That is what GTD is all about.
The Next list is where all Next Actions belong and they are quickly filtered to reveal the task you should consider doing at any moment, based on the Time, Energy and Context.
Hope this helps.
7 Posted by smatlanta on 31 Aug, 2010 05:51 PM
Thanks for the detail, Proximo.
I love the way you describe your process. I've had a few questions and/or issues that I need help figuring out and maybe others do as well (?)
Area of Focus - I'm usually at work or at home or in the car. When I'm at work, before lunch I may do some non work-related personal calls, emails, etc. I assume I should have an area of focus for all the work stuff and and area of focus for all the personal stuff... the personal stuff that I do at work would have Personal as focus.
Context - If some personal stuff has to be done only at home (like clean junk drawer) and some only at the office (make call to car repair place that is open only during the day) I would use "context" to show either Home or Office. And the way I enter the context is using a "tag" of Home or Office. For errands I use the tag "errand" (I tried car, but when I search for car I get all the other tasks that have the letters car like carton, Chuck Carr, etc)
Time and Energy - Ahhhh .... I know these are your favorites, but I have totally failed in this department. I can't imagine ever saying to myself, Hmmm.. I have a high level of energy and 3 hours to do a task. I think all the next actions have to be short bite size pieces that require little thought or energy... otherwise they need to be broken down more... otherwise I will never do them! That seems to be the part that GTD fails me.
Horizon of Focus - The book Master Your Workday Now suggests that you never keep more than 20 items on your "opportunity now" list and the rest you put in a folder called "over the horizon." This way you always have no more than 20 of your top items to scan at a time. I've wanted to find a fast way to do it but don't see any way to set "Priority" or Horizon of Focus on Nirvana (?)
I know there's a lot here. If you can address or answer any of it, that would help a lot.
Thanks,
steve
8 Posted by Proximo on 01 Sep, 2010 03:55 AM
@smatlanta,
Areas of Focus - I do exactly what you describe. I have an AoF for work, one for Personal and Home. While I am at work, I may have some down time and switch to my personal AoF to knock out some items.
One user suggested that the Today list could be separated into Areas so that you can see all the task you want to tackle today in the same Today list. I actually think this is nice because I may have a personal task that I know I want to tackle today and would like the option to show them all in one Today list.
If Nirvana ever releases the Smart List feature, this could probably be done using a Smart List.
For now, I don't think it's too difficult to switch between areas as I need too or to simply change to the All Areas mode and take a look at my Today list.
I try not to have more than 10 today items at any one time.
Context - I do have personal task that may have an office context to remind me where I need to be to accomplish it. Many places of business close before I can get out of the office and I would have to accomplish these at the office. Using context is exactly how you can identify the right resource required.
I like to keep these task in my Personal AoF because they truly belong there, but I use tags to identify the resource required and @Office is useful in these cases. Does not happen too much but GTD can be as flexible as you need it to be.
Time and Energy - I know not everyone uses this, but I think it's one of GTD's gems. Low priority task that may take very little brain power would not fall through the cracks because I can identify them easily. I know when I am drained and I know when I have great mental energy. I found that working on task that require some thinking are not that effective when my brain is out of batteries. I try to use my mental state to my advantage and make sure the task I do accomplish will be done correctly.
Not using Time and Energy does not mean you have failed. Not every part of GTD is needed for everyone. If you get be productive without it, I see no problem at all. I think it's a good idea to try it out for a while and see if you can find the power behind using Time and Energy but this does not mean it's something that works for you.
Horizons of Focus - I kinda do this already by not overloading my Today list. Many times I get my Today list accomplished before lunch and it feels good to dive in and figure out what task I want to add to my today list and get them done.
I do this a lot and this is why filtering by Time, Energy and Context is so important to me. I may have little mental energy after lunch and only 1 hour before a meeting. I can filter my task down to what make sense for me to do and I sort them by priority at that moment.
If you are looking at your entire Next list for any given AoF and try to sort them by priority, this could be very difficult. I choose to sort my priorities only after I filtered down to what I can work on at that moment. This makes it much easier for me to accomplish.
9 Posted by smatlanta on 01 Sep, 2010 04:27 AM
Thanks, Proximo.
When you say you sort them by priority, you mean you actually manually drag them around in order, right? There is no feature in Nirvana that let's us sort them and no feature that lets you mark them in any way right?
10 Posted by Proximo on 01 Sep, 2010 01:04 PM
@smatlanta
You are correct. I manually drag my task and put the most important on the top. I only do this once I filtered my list down because it's much easier and it allows me to only focus on the task I can do at the moment when thinking about my horizons of focus.
Nirvana could use some sorting options and a way to make a task jump to the top with a mouse click. This would be helpful when you have 30 task you are sorting and wanted to push 4 or 5 to the top quickly. I call this the Netflix feature where you click a button to push the task to the top of the current list. :-)
11 Posted by Terminado on 02 Sep, 2010 05:50 PM
@Proximo
Always a pleasure to read your posts.
As I read what others say and what I think they want is "another road to nirvana".
Here's what I mean.
Your approach to daily GTD workflow is linear. It's based on a left-brained, start at the top (AofF) and through a series of filters, drill down to the "precious few" (as devotees of the Pareto Principle say), the "today" list. Of course this works. It provides a logical methodology for getting to a short list of next actions and all but eliminates the chance of overlooking something important.
But some users work differently.
Some don't use Time/Energy/Context at all; some use it randomly--with some tasks but not with all tasks. Some users lives are less structured than others; there's a lot of overlap between AofF or Contexts. And some users simply don't have the time or patience to follow the process; they want to look at their lists, grab something, and run with it. They want to be able to mark a task for attention WHEN THEY HAPPEN UPON IT, NOT NECESSARILY DURING A SYSTEMATIC "REVIEW".
So, what is the other path? Proponents of the Later list would probably say it is having the ability to identity tasks they want to do soon, not today but probably this week, and to put them somewhere (perhaps out of immediate sight but) quickly assessable.
It's a way of identifying tasks that aren't Today or Next but somewhere in between, either by list or icon or some other way (e.g., Tags, Smart Lists).
I used Later for a couple of days after it appeared. I don't use it now (I'm trying to be pure!) but I "feel" like I'm missing something. Tags isn't the answer for me; I want to be able to drag a task somewhere or click something (like the star) or do something affirmative to mark it for attention.
If I was using paper lists, I would simply make another pile. I'd have one pile for Today or "As soon as possible, " another for "I'll look at this again and decide when I can do it but it can wait" and so on.
Changing the label of Today to "Focus" seems like a trivial change, but I think it would help a lot of people who look at Today and don't know whether to put a task in it if they aren't sure about working on it today, or remove it if they don't work on it today (and, if they remove it, struggle with where to put it.)
I know you're "ok" with the idea of calling it "Focus". I don't know if it's enough but it's a step in the right direction.
(If Today is changed to Focus, I know someone will ask, "So, where do we put something we want to work on today?" The answer: at the top of your Focus list.)
12 Posted by Proximo on 03 Sep, 2010 06:18 PM
@Terminado
Very great points. I agree that we all do things differently and I know many people don't strictly follow GTD, but take what works for them and run with it. I think that's perfectly fine, but if a web application is going to be built on GTD, I would rather have the standard methodology implemented by default and not a hybrid.
A simple preference that allows the "Later" list to be turned on or off is all I ask. The default should be "off" to avoid confusing users coming to Nirvana for GTD. That is what Nirvana is designed around after all.
With that said, it's always important for people to do what works and leave the rest alone. I know this may be hard to believe, but I don't implement 100% of GTD either.
Productivity is a tricky thing because we all have different types of responsibilities, job functions and ways of thinking. You are absolutely correct in that people think and process things in different ways. I think GTD is simple enough that most people can find a way for it to work for them but there is no one solution for all.
I also don't think that changing the naming of the Today list is a long term solution to the potential confusion some users have.
What Nirvana needs is a users guide and video's. I am sure this is something they are going to do when they are closer to a finished product. Good thing this community enjoys helping each other out.
I am thinking of doing a series of videos that cover the basics of using Nirvana for GTD, but I would ignore the "Later" list if I did. I could mention how some people may use it, but I don't feel comfortable in doing this when I don't think it belongs in GTD. Maybe I just need to accept that fact that the Later list was created and now it may haunt me forever, or as long as I continue to use Nirvana. :-)
13 Posted by Terminado on 03 Sep, 2010 06:32 PM
@Proximo, you could do the videos "later". I'll put it on my Later list and remind you.
:-)
14 Posted by Lasse on 03 Sep, 2010 10:27 PM
@Terminado: Do you think smart lists would offer what you need? They're really only saved searches but at the same time they're a visible list. So you could tag a task you want to keep in mind, and it would stay in the appropriate GTD list (Next) but still have it in your "pile" between today and next (BTW, that's a pile I've wanted, too. For me it's the "this week" pile).
@Proximo: I agree about the user guide and the video. If you're coming to Nirvana from, say, RTM and have not read GTD, then some features will not make sense or will seem like they need to be improved. A user guide could address these questions (for example "Why does changing the due date not automatically remove a task from today?", and the like).
15 Posted by Proximo on 04 Sep, 2010 01:21 AM
@Terminado,
Good one. I think I will add this task to my "Later" list. LOL
or
I could simply add it to my "Someday" list where it belongs. GRRRRRRR
David McLaughlin closed this discussion on 04 Feb, 2011 01:32 AM.