Nirvana 2: merging of context, contact and area
Seems you only have one space in a 'new task' dialog to enter these three things.. i'm sure the area of focus had its own drop down in the old version which i preferred, more explicit
this does mean you can have tasks in multiple areas of focus, which some people had asked for - although i can check if that works very well since my standalone tasks dont always show up anyway, as previously reported
2 Posted by Proximo on 12 Nov, 2010 05:47 PM
Matrin
Here are my comments on this. I do not like it.
http://goo.gl/XAD6d
3 Posted by fjgirante on 12 Nov, 2010 06:06 PM
Yes!
Give me back my AoF!!!
I hate tags! Now, everything is a tag.
Tags are difficult to set, ease to make a mistake and create a lot of tag variations, and time consuming.
I didn't like the fact that Context were implemented with tags.
And I definitely don’t like to see everything in a tag.
Checkboxes and combo boxes are far better.
I definitely don’t understand.
When editing a task, you can set status with easy, witch I don’t find relevant as opposed to drag and drop.
But to set project you have to drag and drop it – witch is more difficult, but far more relevant and to set the AoF you have to write in the tag space.
And also why is the status taking so much space? An action is a Next OR a Waiting OR a Someday OR a Schedule. An option or a combo should suffice.
Support Staff 4 Posted by Elbert McLaughlin on 12 Nov, 2010 06:34 PM
we hear y'all. i don't think that tags are the problem, per se... it's that the UI isn't complete. we are totally missing a dropdown/add button for contexts / areas etc on the task edit form. the ability to assign items to more than one area was one big argument. another was that suppose you want to filter by contexts or contacts GLOBALLY via what is (currently) the AOR menu.... as they are now all tags under the hood, it's a simple matter of tweaking the UI to be as powerful as you'd expect. Also, this means one simple syntax for email to inbox input.
This is a new to do with #tag1 #tag2 #tag3 ...
Won't matter if it's #work #email #jimbo ... Nirvana2 will know what to do based on how you've classified your tags in the tag library. We didn't want people to have to do the @context #area ~contact programming garblygook that other GTD apps force upon you. It's just meta data. And we want users to be able to choose an alternate char other than # to denote a tag if they wish... as some people may want to use the # in their messages. And think internationalization. Does # make sense worldwide?
(incidentally, there is a way to make Nirvana render in over a dozen languages if you know the secret ninja moves, but I digress...)
So, we're trying to streamline for a simpler future. This is just a bump in the road along the way. In the mean time, try right mouse-clicking anywhere on a task to pull up the context menu. Note, you'll only want to do this when the task is not being edited (for now, anyway).
5 Posted by westis on 12 Nov, 2010 06:51 PM
@Elbert: That localization thing sounds very interesting! You say it's actually already there under the hood?
6 Posted by fjgirante on 12 Nov, 2010 07:14 PM
Fare enough.
I really don’t care how it's done under the wood. I even agree with you it's only metadata.
I just don’t like to work with a big tag textbox filled of stings.
Meanwhile, you did a great work.
I tried all, and I mean ALL the GTD apps, and find Nirvana to be the best.
Support Staff 7 Posted by Elbert McLaughlin on 12 Nov, 2010 07:24 PM
@fjgirante - i know i know, we're kinda obsessed with "under the hood" at the moment. it's what we're most concerned with at the moment. everything moving forward gets built on this invisible stuff, and we've been working on these changes for over 6 months. we're a bit giddy that it seems to be (mostly) working as expected. thanks for the kudos. it's just the beginning!
8 Posted by PeterW on 12 Nov, 2010 09:02 PM
I LOVE the changes. Great work Elbert and the team! Assigning contexts and AoR is now so easy and intuitive during Task add.
I've only had a few minutes playing with the mobile version and have to say that I am really impressed too. You guys have obviously worked very hard.
9 Posted by Mark S on 12 Nov, 2010 09:33 PM
@Elbert,
Just as a point of discussion based on your comment about moving everything to tags, how would you expect Nirvana to react if you have an AoF and a context with the same name?
So using your example above:
This is a new todo #tag1 #tag2 #tag3
What if tag1 and tag2 were the same word?
But one was an AoF and the other a context?
I'm not saying it's an issue for me as I don't work that way but am just thinking about the variety of working styles that people seem to use and how it could cause problems.
Thanks,
Mark
Support Staff 10 Posted by Elbert McLaughlin on 12 Nov, 2010 09:50 PM
We thought of that. And decided it was an edge case... couldn't really come up with a situation where that would be a deal-breaker... at least not where you couldn't devise your own meta naming convention... like areas are capitalized and contexts are lowercase, or whatever.
More interestingly, however, there is now nothing stopping us from extending the Area filter concept in the left nav to (optionally) include your contexts or contacts... Why not select Email or Dave and watch all of Nirvana filter to only items with that Context or Contact? I think this is pretty powerful.
Say I'm walking into a meeting with Dave and I want to only see the world where Dave and I intersect?
Or say my laptop battery runs dry and I'm stuck with only a phone at the airport with 2 hours to kill. Filter on Phone and then run down your to dos.
Really, this is now a multi-dimentional monster waiting to be unleashed.
11 Posted by Keith Devens on 13 Nov, 2010 01:02 AM
FWIW I'm really glad you did this. Remember when I posted a few times when I first started using Nirvana confused because "aren't tags, aof, and projects really the same thing?" Well, projects are still separate but now contacts are unified with tags, which is clever!
Looking forward to seeing what you do with the UI once you've got it refined.
12 Posted by pavel.druzyak on 13 Nov, 2010 03:43 AM
I liked that all is tag. But will be more cool if you implement a nested tags.
13 Posted by martin.tyler on 13 Nov, 2010 08:20 AM
Elbert,
It sounds like a better implementation - under the hood as you say. It's the UX at the moment that I don't think is quite right.
What is interesting though, is that it sounds like the implementation would mean having project folders where you could 'focus' on any part of the tree would be easily possible
14 Posted by Neil on 13 Nov, 2010 03:08 PM
It would also be good to indicate graphicially the difference between AOC and normal context tags - perhaps show them with a slightly different background colour (that's color for the North Americans!).
I was initially confused here after migration because I have an AOF called Home and a context called home.
EDIT: appreciate this an edge case as Elbert describes above, but it wouldn't hurt to show the difference.
15 Posted by gregoe86 on 13 Nov, 2010 03:37 PM
@Neil -- that color idea is a very good one. +1!
16 Posted by phenx on 14 Nov, 2010 06:57 AM
I'd suggest something like
http://gottodoapp.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/task-list-nested.png
for the graphical distinction between Areas, Contexts and Contacts
17 Posted by ghego on 15 Nov, 2010 10:52 AM
I really like the "all tags" implementation of Nirvana2 since I hate moving my hands from the keyboard to the mouse.
Have you guys thought of implementing project assignment with tags too?
When you create a task via email, the fastest way to file it to a project is dragndrop which is slow if you have many projects.
Currently I Implemented GTD directly in my gmail box, using different tag names (or prefixes such as * or ! ) for projects, areas of focus, contexts etc. This makes the processing and weekly review phases very fast, because task classification can be done almost entirely with the keyboard (label assignment, archiving, moving task to a project).
It would be nice to be able to send an email with subject:
new task #context #project #area #contact
and have it classified by nirvana2 directly.
Or at least send an email with subject:
new task
and then once you are in processing mode be able to assign #context #project #area #contact all from the same entry point.
Finally, keyboard shortcuts for task browsing and opening would be very welcome!
Looks really promising! Nice work!
Support Staff 18 Posted by Elbert McLaughlin on 15 Nov, 2010 11:16 AM
@ghego - single-line task creation via email (and future mashups) is precisely why we went with making a "base-class" if you will, of Tag. UI-wise, we obviously need to hide this stuff as end-users shouldn't need to know or care how we are actually managing meta data behind the scenes. Thanks for the props.
19 Posted by Francesco Mosconi on 15 Nov, 2010 11:33 AM
great! looking forward to seeing tags for projects
20 Posted by Proximo on 15 Nov, 2010 12:21 PM
+1 on the color idea.
If I could look at the tag bar and see a different color for each type, this would be nice.
Support Staff 21 Posted by Elbert McLaughlin on 15 Nov, 2010 06:09 PM
yeah, if you hover over the "tags" you'll see that they highlight in different colors. not that this is very useful, we know. in case you hadn't figure this out already, here is the order in which tags always appear:
[time] [energy] [due] | context context context | contact contact | area area | reset
time and energy are sticky... set them and forget them. the idea is that your available time and energy do not change between clicks.
the other tags require command-click / alt-click to do compound filtering.
22 Posted by Proximo on 15 Nov, 2010 07:58 PM
Been playing with it Elbert. Kinda cool actually.
23 Posted by glen on 16 Nov, 2010 04:40 AM
I'm still getting used the tag idea, but found one use, by attaching two tags to something (like 'home' and 'side company', I can have a task that shows up in when I have either focus selected. I don't know if I'm the only one, but it could be useful to be able to set more than one 'focus', like say I'm at home, and I want to see regular home type tasks like mow the lawn, but I also want to see tasks for my side company, which I work on at home, but are really a different 'area' for me.
24 Posted by Rique on 16 Nov, 2010 05:49 AM
I have one request ... and perhaps this is already there. But I really like the notion of tags as simply that... tags.
In N2, tags must be context, contacts or AoR. Sometimes a tag is just a tag - it is a piece of meta information, separate from context, contacts or AoR, which is useful for applying filtering. Such as... "agenda" (just as an example)... or a customer name (another example). If I had tags such as that, I could apply a filter by customer name + agenda and output all of the discussion points / open issues which I needed to put on the agenda for that customer's next project status review meeting,
In my opinion, ideally N2 should include the specialized tags for contacts, context and AoR + a generic tag for everything else.
25 Posted by fjgirante on 16 Nov, 2010 02:42 PM
The reason I don’t like tags, as to do with the fact that:
− I don’t like to write – I prefer to choose/pick. Is faster and prevents you to make mistakes like: "hom” and “homees” and “home” and “Home” and… witch simply means “Home”;
− I do like to categorize things and not to mix different concepts. There are AoF, Contacts, Context, (even Locations) and tags and I don’t like to mix all that.
You did a good work (almost excellent) with the top filter area.
You did a good work (almost excellent) with the write context menu.
I think the task entry form could be better if you simply:
− fiscally separate the concepts of AoF, Contacts, Contexts and Tags (please, Context are to important to mix with simple tags);
− Implement a similar functionality to the write context menu, in the task entry form;
− Turn Contacts as links to contact detail
For a better write context menu and top filter area:
− Put different colours to each concepts, in the top filter area and in the tag list of each Task (like you did with projects);
− In the write context menu, separate Contexts from tags (please, Context are to important to mix with simple tags)
Support Staff 26 Posted by Elbert McLaughlin on 16 Nov, 2010 03:53 PM
@rique - i think we will be renaming things soon to be more clear. our terminology is a bit jumbled, and is causing a whole lotta confusion at the moment. hang tight.