Nirvana2: managing "next" and "waiting for" inside project
Right now if I have a project I will have:
Next:
A.task
B.task
Waiting:
C.task
If I have decided that I cannot progress with project without C.task from "waiting" being done (so I don't want the "Next" A and B task being shown in Next Actions list) I have to:
- take C.task off the waiting for
- move up C task to be first on the project's task list:
C.task
A.task
B.Task
- put the C.task into waiting for again.
Am I missing something or is it a horrible way to manage your tasks?
In Nirvana 1.0 all the tasks were on one list without separators so I could move them up and down how I wanted. Will you be bringing that back?
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2 Posted by Proximo on 22 Nov, 2010 06:23 PM
@MarcinGTD
I think you are correct.
3 Posted by Mark S on 22 Nov, 2010 10:08 PM
If I'm waiting for someone to get back to me not only do I create a "Waiting" task but I create a "Scheduled" task as a follow up sometime in the future.
Normally at a date when I feel it is reasonable to have received a response back by this point, basically because one of my projects can't move on until I get a response so I set a tickler to remind someone that I'm waiting for a response.
GTD by proxy I guess?
For me, I do use the Later list for tasks that cannot be actioned right now, either because they're dependent on Actions I need to complete or that I'm waiting for someone else to do something.
I know that Proximo has his own opinion of the Later list and I'll admit that it could be better named (change it to Actionable or Hold maybe to differentiate between it and the Next Actions bucket?) but I find it useful for those projects that have roadblocks in them.
Actions that are after the roadblock go in to Later and are only moved into Next Actions when the roadblock has been removed.
To me, there's a clear distinction between Someday/Maybe and Later.
It's mainly clarity of purpose.
Later is something that has to be done but can't be done right now but Someday/Maybe possibly has to be done (or needs further thought before deciding whether to do it or not).
Meh, it's the end of the day and I'm rambling, sorry.
Anyway, to give my opinion in concise terms I use Later.
To use your example above Task A and Task B would be in the Later list.
Task C would be in Waiting and I'd have a scheduled Task D to follow up with the person I'm waiting for (normally with the same due date as start date so it pops right into the Focus list).
That way I can put that project out of my mind until the follow up task pops up, it's in the system and has been dealt with.
HTH
Mark
4 Posted by MarcinGTD on 29 Nov, 2010 12:42 PM
@Mark
I think we are talking about diffrent things
I meant to say that I cannot reorder "next" task and "waiting for" inside the project because those are separated by tabs. In N1 there was no tab for diffrent type of items so we could reorder them at will.
5 Posted by Zeshalta on 29 Nov, 2010 01:19 PM
@ MarcinGTD
Agreed - need to be able to reorder the tasks for better clarity. I am currently in the same situation as you with task B showing up first in next, task A in waiting for and task C in scheduled.
While I do like the clarity of the separate topic headings which allows for easy 'at a glance' viewing - I'd definitely prefer to be able to order them accordingly for the same 'at a glance' ease.
@Mark
Funny how words have certain meanings :) Someday for me almost feels like a 'wish upon a star' or a 'if I ever get a spare moment' category - things I put in there are more like "read such and such's novel". I like the later list for, as you say, stalled tasks that must be done, or that I am putting off in favour of something else... however, how do you work around projects?
I currently have two projects that aren't quite feeling right in the list... do you label them as inactive? Although one at this stage is looking more like a 'someday' project, the other isn't quite actionable until my current main project is finished (or rather I prefer to focus my attention on this project which has somewhat more urgency to it). I don't have a definite deadline for my main project so scheduling the other doesn't seem to fit... it's active in that it needs to be completed and in that it has already been started. Should it instead be placed in waiting-for under my name?
Perhaps I'm looking too much into things.
6 Posted by Zeshalta on 29 Nov, 2010 01:26 PM
Ok ignore the above in regards to 'later' list silly me just synced and saw the later option appear.
I am, however, interested in how core GTD which works without a later list works in the case mentioned above.
7 Posted by Proximo on 29 Nov, 2010 03:08 PM
Someday/Maybe are things that you don't need to do. (Are not Actionable) but you may want to consider them down the road.
You review the items in your Someday list to see if you decided to take action on any of the ideas listed there. You may never decide to take action on some of these and this is why you purge the list as time goes on and you identify which things you will not be doing. The things you are not sure about stay there for further review and consideration.
One example for me was "Learn Italian". I figured it would be easy because I am fluent in Spanish already, but I have come to the realization that it's not something I will be making time for, so it came of the Someday list.
One example of something that is still in my Someday list is "Learn the Marovingian Knot". I wear ties a lot and I found an instructional video that teaches you the Marovingian knot from the Matrix. It's not something I have to do and therefore it's not actionable. But I may want to consider learning it down the road so It stays there for now. If I decided to finally learn it, It will become actionable and moves to the Next List. If I decided it will never happen, I will remove it from the Someday list.
That covers the Someday list.
Mark is correct about my feeling on the Later list. It's not GTD but this does not mean it won't be useful for some people. The Later list is already built into GTD which is why David Allen never teaches or talks about one. In fact, the idea of having a Later list breaks the methodology of GTD because you are not deciding what to do based on Time, Energy, Context and Priority. You should not judge what task will be good to do Later because your Time, Energy, Context and Priorities are always shifting and changing. Trying to create a list of task that you THINK will be done later breaks the GTD mold.
Any Next Action that you are not actively doing right now, is automatically something that needs to be done Later. You should not determine what will make sense to work on in the future in GTD but what would make sense to work on right now based on your Time, Energy, Context and Priorities. There is no need for the Later list when you follow the GTD Methodology.
Some have started to use the Later list in a different way that helps them with managing task in a Project. If this helps you and makes you more productive, you should use it.
Always do what works for you. If that means the Later list is helping you in some way, you should continue to use it. Just because I don't see it's purpose within GTD and David Allen does not teach it either, does not mean it's not useful to some people.
You see. I managed to talk about the Later list and keep my cool. :-)
GTD is simple when you decide to keep it simple. Over structuring and over controlling things breaks down the idea of simplicity and productivity in most cases. Your mileage may vary, so always do what works for you.
@Zeshalta
If a Project is Actionable, it belongs in the Project list. I don't care if it's not something you THINK will be worked on in the near future, or if many other projects are ahead of it.
Actionable is Actionable. If it's something you MUST do, it stays in the Project list. If the Project is something that you don't need to do and therefore not Actionable, it goes in the Someday list only if you decide it's something you may want to consider one day.
To make your Project list easy to manage, you can use the "Inactive" Feature to filter out the Actionable Projects that are taking a back seat at the moment. Just because a project is taking a back seat, does not mean it's not actionable. It belongs in the Project list with the other Actionable projects. Once you have some time to focus on that project, just make it active again so that is shows on the left Navi.
So many people try to create their own definition of what goes in each list. I suggest you follow the GTD method and it's fairly clear.
If you have a Project that is actionable and you decided it's not something you will be doing this year, I would question if it was actionable to begin with. Some people find themselves in this situation a lot. They thought a Project was actionable but in reality it was not. They have it in their Project list, but it really belongs in the trash or in the Someday list. Make sure you are realistic with what you are calling actionable in GTD.
It's OK to think something was actionable but then later realize it's not something you really are required to do and may not get a chance to work on it for a very long time. The weekly review is designed to find things like this and allow you to adjust what list it goes on or to get rid of it.
These are just some of my thoughts. GTD is flexible but I think a lot of the power comes from the core ideas shared by David Allen. Adjust where it makes sense for you and drive on.
8 Posted by Zeshalta on 29 Nov, 2010 04:29 PM
@Proximo
Thanks for taking time to explain GTD and it's application. Those of us who haven't actually read DA's book certainly appreciate it. (It's currently in the someday category - I may have to bump it to next very soon)
On a personal note I'm using Nirvana and it's GTD method to help manage life in relation to a mental illness. (Big thank you to the Nirvana team for coming along when you did).
Breaking things down into bite sized chunks appeals to me; I also have to be careful not to freak myself out with "looming" projects. Deciding what is 'actionable' for me might be slightly harder than for the average Joe: what needs to be done, what I think (or think I know) can be done, and what eventually gets done, can all be separate things entirely. I'm trying to use Nirvana to gain self-clarity, however it's early days and as such, a WIP.
I can see both sides of the for/against later list. Over the next few days I'll continue to have a play around with it; see if it's something I'll keep. I can say though that as it currently doesn't appear on my Mobile device, it's not looking likely. There's also a very great chance that anything I put in the Later list will be far too easy to forget about and thus counter to what I'm trying to accomplish.
What you said above, certainly makes sense
I'm probably over-thinking things and entirely forgetting KISS principle.
Much food for thought.
9 Posted by Proximo on 29 Nov, 2010 11:39 PM
@Zeshalta
I applaud you for trying to use tools in helping you with your situation.
I do honestly believe people should do what works for them regardless of my input. :-)
Sometimes we can forget the purpose of a system like GTD in the first place and it's to get things done. This can be done in different ways for different people, so always remember to do what works best for you.
I share my thoughts on GTD but never claim to be the expert of that my way of doing it is the correct way. The correct way is the way that works for you, period.
Always glad to share and I learn a lot from everyone here.
Thanks
David McLaughlin closed this discussion on 11 Feb, 2011 08:16 AM.