Thanks for your suggestion melelisun. You aren't alone and we
are considering it but aren't certain 100% if we'll be implementing
it as tags could be used instead.
Could you tell me how you'd nest projects? Is it because you
want to organize projects by client? home vs work? This will help
us understand the want for this feature and could help push us over
the fence and put it on our roadmap 100%.
I am with Vin on this. Nested task would be a great way to break
down a Project that requires multi-steps. I think of it as a mini
project within a project. It's very realistic in our complicated
world.
Great.. thanks for your input, guys. I will report back to the
dev team and see if this feedback is enough to tip them over that
fence I was talking about.
OK... I'm starting to think about this in a whole 'nuther way,
considering I sometimes have quick sub-tasks listed in the notes
area of a single task. (Elbert divulges dirty little secret).
What is the best sub-task implementation you've seen out
there?
The only problem with that method is that you can't assign
different properties to the sub-tasks in a note.
For example, I might have a Project called "File Taxes". This
could have tons of individual tasks. Such as "Find a CPA". This
could have sub-tasks like "Research CPA's in Area @computer", "Talk
to Andy about CPA @phone (Today)", etc.
Maybe this isn't a super clear example, but it would be nice to
be able to nest tasks.
Nirvana shows Projects in their own section which is great. The multiple steps required for the Project are listed as individual task under the Project Details. This is a nice and clean way of displaying a Project.
The idea here is to have the ability for nested task or sub-task that are indented from the parent task.
This will allow you to break things down further while keeping the interface simple and straight forward.
Example
Project:
Implement new Product Data Management System
Steps:
Meet with Vendor and see a Demo of their product
Determine if our requirements are met
Get a quote for implementation and setup of the system
Prepare our Network Folders for import into system
- Backup all data on the network folders
- Purge file folders of useless files
- Run Duplicate file finder to identify duplicate data/files
- Identify the files that must be deleted to clean our file structure
- Decide on what needs to move to the Product Data Management System
- Import the Data/Files into the system
Run a test of the system with limited users
Identify any problem areas
Prepare for full roll out
- Train users on new system
- Setup live demonstration
- Determine any problems from users perspective
- Address Issues
Roll out system and Go Live
In this example, the individual task make up the multiple steps for this project and the indented sub-task are a further breakdown of steps required in a given step.
The advantage here is exactly what Vin mentioned. You can assign context, tags, due dates, etc. to each Task or Sub-task of a Project. The task or sub-task that are marked with a Star will show up in your Star view which is your Next Actions or what you committed to doing next.
For those using the application as a general list manager then i
think there's a place for nested projects and/or subtasks, but from
a GTD perspective i'm not sure they're necessary. My understanding
is that your action list should only contain tasks that you can do
next, given the context, your energy levels, available time,
etc.
For the example Proximo listed above i'd turn it into a
checklist and store it in "project support", reserving the GTD app
for keeping tabs on what i need to do next in order to move the
project forward.
Personally I am not a GTD fanatic. I read the book a couple
times and pulled a few great concepts from it, but I have a few
things I do differently. One of them happens to be nesting projects
and tasks.
Remember the Milk has built their task management app without
adding this feature (although it has been asked for by the
community hundreds of times).
Ultimately it's up to how Nirvana wants to promote the product.
If it is STRICTLY GTD, then maybe they don't need to go that
route.
Hey folks... we just rolled out inline checklists. It's not
nested projects, and it's not sub-tasks, but it might come in handy
in a number of situations.
Yes I was also thinking about this and posted a feature request.
Now I see that I'm not the only one. Projects tends to be complex
and having one project folder with 50 task gets really messy.
In terms of GTD and breaking everything down into actionable
items, this approach simply results in too many tasks for me and
becomes unbearable to look at!. Being able to group these
actionable tasks into chunks, as well as group projects into
categories (yes I should probably do this with tags) would be the
one thing I haven't been able to find in a slick task manager.
Multi-level would be ideal, but I would settle for just one
level if that is an interim step!
Maybe First version should be simple. At least to do basic
things that we need is already there and ability to share task and
add images would be fine to start 1 version.
Then you spend your time on improving your product with
additional features.
Kind of off topic, but I personally think that collaboration and
sharing should be way down on the priorities list. This is a
personal task management system, not an overall project
manager.
Just looking at Proximo's example posted (way) above:
Prepare our Network Folders for import into system
- Backup all data on the network folders
- Purge file folders of useless files
- Run Duplicate file finder to identify duplicate data/files
- Identify the files that must be deleted to clean our file structure
- Decide on what needs to move to the Product Data Management System
- Import the Data/Files into the system
Isn't this really a nested project instead of a nested task?
Within the overall project, "Implement new Product Data Management System," "Prepare our Network Folders for import into system" is really a sub-project since it requires more than one step to complete.
Just my GTD two cents worth.
P.S. Proximo, although my mind may be like inside of septic tank, I do at times have moments of clarity. : -)
I agree with Glenn. We need sub-projects (and sub-tasks).
I just took an existing project and made it active. When I
reviewed all the tasks, I realized that the project consisted of a
long-term, ongoing project with a number of disparate sub-projects
with different sub-tasks and timelines.
I made one of those sub-projects into it's own project; I
created sub-tasks (using the -check box shortcut). That sub-task is
now one of my active tasks but so is the original project because I
want to keep that in front of me and work on some of the tasks
therein.
If we have sub-projects, I could save screen space and see how
everything fits together.
agree agree! the biggest problem I have with the check box list under a
task is that you have no way to harness those TASKS like all other tasks
being handled by GTD software. This is a neat little trick (checkboxes
under a task) but is appears counter to GTD - you got it out of your head,
but you have no way to leverage those small tasks to context, time, energy
and priority because they are hidden within another task.
I definitely could use the added structure that sub-projects
would provide as well.
Here is an experiment I tried as a workaround using the "hidden"
smart list feature (lower case L - would that be a beta of a beta,
or perhaps a sub-beta?).
I have a project that currently has two sub-projects, and a
handful of regular project tasks. What I did was to create two
projects for the sub-projects, and made regular tasks from the
project tasks. Then I tied them all together with a tag name that
represents the overall project.
Then I created a smart list and assigned the project tag. This
puts the name in the left navi just below the real project list. If
I squint and use my imagination, I can convince myself that it is a
real project.
It remains to be seen how well this will work for me. I'm still
in the process of moving tasks over from Toodledo, so I'm still
getting my feet wet.
I am raising my hand to signal that I, too, need projects with
their associated tasks and subtasks. For work, I have four main
goal areas, which I label "projects." At RTM, I found it helpful to
call up one project tab and then have easy access to all of the
main tasks associated with reaching that goal. Smart lists helped
organize work-next items with tags to keep all tasks/subtasks
clearly linked to the main project. I have a quarterly report tasks
that requires that I report on what's been accomplished, in a micro
manner. The tabs on archived, completed items help me do the
report. But, meanwhile, none of this work requires a project
management app. The outline method demo'd by Proximo, above,
reflects the reality.
just some thoughts:
- sometimes i want to group several projects into one category.
e.g. a category "web", and then put the "website1" and "website2"
projects under that category. so we need either nested projects or
project categories (project categories would be more clean). - to
create subtasks from tasks, nested tasks would be suited better
than subprojects.
edit: the inline checklist is great! thanks. that solves the
nested tasks problem for me.
31 Posted by Silvia Straka on 31 May, 2010 05:04 PM
I would very much like to be able to nest projects, since I work
on a lot of complex projects in the area of academia. I am often
working on several different aspects of a project at one time.
Having subprojects would allow me to make sure I'm moving forward
in these different areas.
For example, I'm working on a funding proposal for a research
project right now. The main project is:
Elder abuse proposal, submit
Subprojects are:
Online CV, update (many many tasks involved)
Collaborators and partners, get on board
Project rationale, write (has multiple authors, so it's
complex)
Budgets, prepare
...
Each of these subprojects can have more than one NA that is
possible at any point in time. Showing these as subprojects allows
me to make sure I'm taking care of all these areas in a timely
manner in order to meet my deadline.
Support Staff 2 Posted by Christiane Magee on 26 Nov, 2009 09:49 PM
Thanks for your suggestion melelisun. You aren't alone and we are considering it but aren't certain 100% if we'll be implementing it as tags could be used instead.
Could you tell me how you'd nest projects? Is it because you want to organize projects by client? home vs work? This will help us understand the want for this feature and could help push us over the fence and put it on our roadmap 100%.
3 Posted by Vin Thomas on 27 Nov, 2009 06:30 AM
I think it would be better to have nested tasks. This is very helpful for muti-step projects.
Support Staff 4 Posted by Christiane Magee on 27 Nov, 2009 03:18 PM
Ah... okay. This makes sense.
Anyone else?
5 Posted by Proximo on 30 Nov, 2009 03:01 PM
I am with Vin on this. Nested task would be a great way to break down a Project that requires multi-steps. I think of it as a mini project within a project. It's very realistic in our complicated world.
Support Staff 6 Posted by Christiane Magee on 30 Nov, 2009 05:32 PM
Great.. thanks for your input, guys. I will report back to the dev team and see if this feedback is enough to tip them over that fence I was talking about.
Anyone else? Feel free to chime in!
7 Posted by Vin Thomas on 30 Nov, 2009 06:45 PM
Check out some of the feedback from your competitor's customers.
http://www.rememberthemilk.com/forums/ideas/180/
Obviously this is a huge deal to many. It is why I moved from RTM to Toodledo.
Other apps have nested task as well: Todoist, Checkvist, The Hit List, and many more.
This becomes very useful when dealing with many tasks.
Support Staff 8 Posted by Elbert McLaughlin on 30 Nov, 2009 08:15 PM
OK... I'm starting to think about this in a whole 'nuther way, considering I sometimes have quick sub-tasks listed in the notes area of a single task. (Elbert divulges dirty little secret).
What is the best sub-task implementation you've seen out there?
9 Posted by Vin Thomas on 30 Nov, 2009 08:26 PM
The only problem with that method is that you can't assign different properties to the sub-tasks in a note.
For example, I might have a Project called "File Taxes". This could have tons of individual tasks. Such as "Find a CPA". This could have sub-tasks like "Research CPA's in Area @computer", "Talk to Andy about CPA @phone (Today)", etc.
Maybe this isn't a super clear example, but it would be nice to be able to nest tasks.
10 Posted by Proximo on 30 Nov, 2009 09:44 PM
Nirvana shows Projects in their own section which is great. The multiple steps required for the Project are listed as individual task under the Project Details. This is a nice and clean way of displaying a Project.
The idea here is to have the ability for nested task or sub-task that are indented from the parent task.
This will allow you to break things down further while keeping the interface simple and straight forward.
Example
Project:
Implement new Product Data Management System
Steps:
Meet with Vendor and see a Demo of their product
Determine if our requirements are met
Get a quote for implementation and setup of the system
Prepare our Network Folders for import into system
- Backup all data on the network folders
- Purge file folders of useless files
- Run Duplicate file finder to identify duplicate data/files
- Identify the files that must be deleted to clean our file structure
- Decide on what needs to move to the Product Data Management System
- Import the Data/Files into the system
Run a test of the system with limited users
Identify any problem areas
Prepare for full roll out
- Train users on new system
- Setup live demonstration
- Determine any problems from users perspective
- Address Issues
Roll out system and Go Live
In this example, the individual task make up the multiple steps for this project and the indented sub-task are a further breakdown of steps required in a given step.
The advantage here is exactly what Vin mentioned. You can assign context, tags, due dates, etc. to each Task or Sub-task of a Project. The task or sub-task that are marked with a Star will show up in your Star view which is your Next Actions or what you committed to doing next.
Hope that makes sense.
11 Posted by Chris on 09 Dec, 2009 11:54 PM
For those using the application as a general list manager then i think there's a place for nested projects and/or subtasks, but from a GTD perspective i'm not sure they're necessary. My understanding is that your action list should only contain tasks that you can do next, given the context, your energy levels, available time, etc.
For the example Proximo listed above i'd turn it into a checklist and store it in "project support", reserving the GTD app for keeping tabs on what i need to do next in order to move the project forward.
12 Posted by Vin Thomas on 10 Dec, 2009 12:03 AM
Personally I am not a GTD fanatic. I read the book a couple times and pulled a few great concepts from it, but I have a few things I do differently. One of them happens to be nesting projects and tasks.
Remember the Milk has built their task management app without adding this feature (although it has been asked for by the community hundreds of times).
Ultimately it's up to how Nirvana wants to promote the product. If it is STRICTLY GTD, then maybe they don't need to go that route.
13 Posted by Chuck Rifici on 21 Dec, 2009 02:56 AM
I'd prefer the ability to nest projects within projects vs. nested tasks.
14 Posted by smarow on 01 Mar, 2010 02:34 PM
+1 for nested tasks... even if its just 1 level...
btw... shouldnt this be in the suggestions rather than problems category?
15 Posted by Proximo on 02 Mar, 2010 12:55 AM
@smarow,
I think you are right about moving this to the suggestion section and should be moved by a Moderator.....
Support Staff 16 Posted by Elbert McLaughlin on 02 Mar, 2010 04:49 PM
This discussion has been moved from Problems --> Suggestions.
Support Staff 17 Posted by Elbert McLaughlin on 02 Mar, 2010 09:21 PM
Hey folks... we just rolled out inline checklists. It's not nested projects, and it's not sub-tasks, but it might come in handy in a number of situations.
http://blog.nirvanahq.com/2010/03/02/new-feature-inline-checklists/
18 Posted by jazzybeat28 on 01 Apr, 2010 06:34 PM
Yes I was also thinking about this and posted a feature request. Now I see that I'm not the only one. Projects tends to be complex and having one project folder with 50 task gets really messy.
19 Posted by Jamison on 02 Apr, 2010 05:36 PM
Just wanted to say yes to this suggestion. Sub-projects would be wonderful.
20 Posted by Jamison on 05 Apr, 2010 04:00 PM
I was looking at Vitalist - I really like the way they handle this. Surprisingly, not too many GTD type offerings have this function.
Also, how would you use tags in place of sub-projects (as mentioned above)?
21 Posted by Sean on 09 Apr, 2010 12:01 PM
+1 for sub-tasks for a project environment.
In terms of GTD and breaking everything down into actionable items, this approach simply results in too many tasks for me and becomes unbearable to look at!. Being able to group these actionable tasks into chunks, as well as group projects into categories (yes I should probably do this with tags) would be the one thing I haven't been able to find in a slick task manager.
Multi-level would be ideal, but I would settle for just one level if that is an interim step!
22 Posted by jazzybeat28 on 09 Apr, 2010 12:37 PM
Maybe First version should be simple. At least to do basic things that we need is already there and ability to share task and add images would be fine to start 1 version.
Then you spend your time on improving your product with additional features.
LESS IS MORE :-)
23 Posted by Jamison on 09 Apr, 2010 12:43 PM
Kind of off topic, but I personally think that collaboration and sharing should be way down on the priorities list. This is a personal task management system, not an overall project manager.
24 Posted by Glenn on 10 Apr, 2010 09:46 PM
Just looking at Proximo's example posted (way) above:
Prepare our Network Folders for import into system
- Backup all data on the network folders
- Purge file folders of useless files
- Run Duplicate file finder to identify duplicate data/files
- Identify the files that must be deleted to clean our file structure
- Decide on what needs to move to the Product Data Management System
- Import the Data/Files into the system
Isn't this really a nested project instead of a nested task?
Within the overall project, "Implement new Product Data Management System," "Prepare our Network Folders for import into system" is really a sub-project since it requires more than one step to complete.
Just my GTD two cents worth.
P.S. Proximo, although my mind may be like inside of septic tank, I do at times have moments of clarity. : -)
25 Posted by Terminado on 19 Apr, 2010 02:06 AM
I agree with Glenn. We need sub-projects (and sub-tasks).
I just took an existing project and made it active. When I reviewed all the tasks, I realized that the project consisted of a long-term, ongoing project with a number of disparate sub-projects with different sub-tasks and timelines.
I made one of those sub-projects into it's own project; I created sub-tasks (using the -check box shortcut). That sub-task is now one of my active tasks but so is the original project because I want to keep that in front of me and work on some of the tasks therein.
If we have sub-projects, I could save screen space and see how everything fits together.
26 Posted by Boyd j. on 19 Apr, 2010 03:11 AM
agree agree! the biggest problem I have with the check box list under a
task is that you have no way to harness those TASKS like all other tasks
being handled by GTD software. This is a neat little trick (checkboxes
under a task) but is appears counter to GTD - you got it out of your head,
but you have no way to leverage those small tasks to context, time, energy
and priority because they are hidden within another task.
very anxious for subtask and/or nested task asap.
thanks
27 Posted by roddyt on 19 Apr, 2010 12:58 PM
I definitely could use the added structure that sub-projects would provide as well.
Here is an experiment I tried as a workaround using the "hidden" smart list feature (lower case L - would that be a beta of a beta, or perhaps a sub-beta?).
I have a project that currently has two sub-projects, and a handful of regular project tasks. What I did was to create two projects for the sub-projects, and made regular tasks from the project tasks. Then I tied them all together with a tag name that represents the overall project.
Then I created a smart list and assigned the project tag. This puts the name in the left navi just below the real project list. If I squint and use my imagination, I can convince myself that it is a real project.
It remains to be seen how well this will work for me. I'm still in the process of moving tasks over from Toodledo, so I'm still getting my feet wet.
Roddy
28 Posted by Terminado on 19 Apr, 2010 08:04 PM
"If I squint and use my imagination, I can convince myself that it is a real project."
LOL, I did that a lot at TD!
29 Posted by sunni.freyer on 20 Apr, 2010 12:11 AM
I am raising my hand to signal that I, too, need projects with their associated tasks and subtasks. For work, I have four main goal areas, which I label "projects." At RTM, I found it helpful to call up one project tab and then have easy access to all of the main tasks associated with reaching that goal. Smart lists helped organize work-next items with tags to keep all tasks/subtasks clearly linked to the main project. I have a quarterly report tasks that requires that I report on what's been accomplished, in a micro manner. The tabs on archived, completed items help me do the report. But, meanwhile, none of this work requires a project management app. The outline method demo'd by Proximo, above, reflects the reality.
30 Posted by gezuru on 19 May, 2010 10:32 PM
+1 for nesting projects AND tasks.
just some thoughts:
- sometimes i want to group several projects into one category. e.g. a category "web", and then put the "website1" and "website2" projects under that category. so we need either nested projects or project categories (project categories would be more clean). - to create subtasks from tasks, nested tasks would be suited better than subprojects.
edit: the inline checklist is great! thanks. that solves the nested tasks problem for me.
31 Posted by Silvia Straka on 31 May, 2010 05:04 PM
I would very much like to be able to nest projects, since I work on a lot of complex projects in the area of academia. I am often working on several different aspects of a project at one time. Having subprojects would allow me to make sure I'm moving forward in these different areas.
For example, I'm working on a funding proposal for a research project right now. The main project is:
Elder abuse proposal, submit
Subprojects are:
Online CV, update (many many tasks involved)
Collaborators and partners, get on board
Project rationale, write (has multiple authors, so it's complex)
Budgets, prepare
...
Each of these subprojects can have more than one NA that is possible at any point in time. Showing these as subprojects allows me to make sure I'm taking care of all these areas in a timely manner in order to meet my deadline.
Thanks.
Silvia