Experimenting with Inline comments (see Nirvana Blog)
2 things on this:
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The leave a comment link or button should be located near the top, maybe even next to the note icon at the end of the action title.
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This is more important: New comments should be inserted at the top of the list and push the rest of the list down. This will allways leave the most recent comment on top.
This will allow the notes section of the action to be used as a contact history/audit trail where you can see where you are at a glance.
Also I believe there is no specific need to separate the note with the comments. Just add each note to the top of the list with a time stamp.
Check Vitalist. I like the way they have implemented it. The hard part there is the number of mouseclicks it takes to make a note.
Just add shortcut "t" "to add a time stamped note. Put the new note on top of the notes section and push the rest of the notes down.
Or make adding to the top or the bottom of the list a settings parameter.
The way this is implemented now will require a lot of scrolling when my initial task/action comes from an email that I mailed into Nirvana. As I then want to see the latest activity on that task I have to scroll all the way down. Not very practical.
I suggest you beta this for yourself trying to use it for contact history. You will soon find out you need to add your most recent note at the top.
Also as you get familiarized with the action because you have seen it in your Today list a couple of times, then the original supporting note becomes less important but your most recent contact attempts are.
Jos
I just may want to add that for recurring actions one could make a case to add your most recent note or comment at the top too.
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2 Posted by josvandervoort on 04 Mar, 2010 06:29 AM
I looked at the blog article again and it hit me that the suggested comments implementation looks (sorry!) "cluttered" to me. Anyway this proposal will not work for me.
The way I would use this is to take my "calls" context list, which could have over 30 or 40 actions on it. I sit down and start calling. I put in my bluetooth earpiece and use my cell phone to make the calls.
Call Actions have a very typical format for me:
Magnavox - John Smith - 123-555-555: Call him to follow up on the proposal we have sent.
In the original note (at action creation time) I may have jotted down some info about the proposal, maybe the name of an assistant or a couple of notes from previous meetings that are important.
When I actually start calling from my Calls context list, then the original note is just a reminder. It can very well be that John has told me about decision makers in his company, people he has to consult or any other important info I have collected while following up. This info should not be at the bottom of my notes/comments but at the top.
Now here is a compromise suggestion that I believe actually would work better.
Treat the original note that was created at the time of the action creation as the "mother" of the notes. After that add notes or comments to the action (for me there does not have to be a distinction between notes and comments. Actually comments would suggest input from others, whereas notes suggest input by me).
New notes will be displayed above the original "mother" note. All notes are on a stack with the top one being the latest note. It should be visually apparent if there is more than one note on the stack. Make it look like a stack for example if there is more than one note. It should be easy to collapse and uncollapse these notes/comments. If it shows as a stack, you could make the stack clickeable to uncollapse. To collapse click on any note in the uncollapsed list for example. Keyboard shortcut "c" "can maybe toggle collapse / uncollapse??
This way when you open an action for its notes by clicking on the little icon to the right of the action, I would see the original note + the latest note I have made for that action.
If you need more info you can uncollapse the notes which would open a new note window immediately on top as well. In most cases I now have all the info I need at a glance. If I need more I can uncollapse and see everything + I can make a new note.
Another option would be to show from top to bottom (when the notes icon is clicked ar the end of the action text):
I would find that very attractive and very workable too. Especially if you could find a clever way to collapse and uncollapse the notes.
I can make a tremendous amount of calls from my calls list this way. It works for me like this in Vitalist. The problem Vitalist has is that my original "mother" note is all the way at the bottom and that it takes several mouse clicks to make the note, then change the view in the action to change the dates and save the note to any of my lists.
I want to call, make my note (these can be very cryptic like "VM" if the only thing I did was leave a voicemail asking to call me back). Then I decide if it is a Tickler or a Waiting for, change the date if necessary and move it off my radar until I need to make that call again or have to check if I have been called back.
David Allen uses the word "Teflon" quite often. I would like my calls workflow to be as Teflon as possible. Katsjing! Katsjing!
3 Posted by josvandervoort on 24 Mar, 2010 07:14 PM
Today being three weeks down the line from these two messages I am wondering if there are any new devlopments underway to tackle this issue.
I am at a point where I can live with a GTD app that has made GTD implementation choices that I may not like completely.
The workflow though is very important. Date and Time stamping of the notes too.
Support Staff 4 Posted by Elbert McLaughlin on 24 Mar, 2010 08:44 PM
Hi Jos -
Regarding your suggestion for putting most recent items at the top, this will be likely be a user preference. There are valid arguments to be made for either sort order. I understand that your situation involves a lot of phone calls and the need for audit trails, and while you are not alone in this, it does not pass our 80/20 rule for being the norm.
Our current goal is to implement missing GTD elements, and leave what we consider features that are nice-to-have, but not critical, for later. We are currently focusing our attention on implementing Areas of Responsibility (building on top of compound filtering that went live last week) and Recurring Tasks.
As such we have pushed comments/timestamps off for another few weeks.
Regards,
Elbert
5 Posted by Proximo on 24 Mar, 2010 08:54 PM
I also like time stamps and use my notes as a history trail or time line.
It's interesting how different our work requirements can be between different professions. I never deal with as many calls as you do, but I can see why it's important to input your comments in a quick and uncluttered way.
I put my latest note entries on top with a time stamp today, but it's a manual entry at this point. I am not in a situation where I need to make many phone calls and enter text rapidly between them. I understand your situation is different and I agree it would be a nice feature for those who deal with similar situations.
As Elbert mentioned, the core features are the focus at this point and for good reason, but I am sure some of these nice features will eventually make it into Nirvana.
David McLaughlin closed this discussion on 31 Jan, 2011 03:23 PM.