Flagged tasks
I know this is not strictly GTD (even though OF offers this
functionality), but I'd like to be able to flag items. Even though
I can arrange tasks in the order in which I want to do them, it
happens often enough that something comes up and it turns out I
have only little time to get things done. In those cases I like to
be able to see at a glance what matters most (which to me in most
cases means: "which of these tasks is so important that I will stay
up late and sacrifice sleep to get it done today"). Obviously I
could just add a tag like "priority" to those tasks but if this
applies to more than one, I'd have to open every one of those tasks
to tag them and then later search for the items with that tag. If
it was flagged, however, I wouldn't even have to search because I'd
see it right away (if done like in gmail for example).
And maybe the flag (or star or whatever) might be a reminder that
there are things on my todo list that are more important right now
than posting in the Nirvana forum... :)
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2 Posted by schelske on 30 Mar, 2010 07:23 PM
Seem like Tags would allow for that.
3 Posted by Proximo on 31 Mar, 2010 09:27 PM
I see what you are wanting to do but I agree that tags will allow for this.
I believe Nirvana is going to do something cool with tags where you can have one called priority and when you click it more options show up such as low, med, high. Don't hold me to this but I thought it was mentioned in the past.
Not trying to get all GTD Cop on anyone, but the factors that allow you to choose what to do at any time are
1. Time
2. Energy
3. Context
4. Priority.
Right now tags have way to many responsibilities in Nirvana but I think this will change with Areas of Focus and some other things in the works.
just a thought.
4 Posted by Lasse on 01 Apr, 2010 10:36 PM
@GTD Cop aka Proximo :) When I used to post in a competitor's forum, every now and then someone would respond to my feature requests with "but that's not gtd". After a while I finally decided to read the book to find out what gtd actually was. It turned out that I profitted from it a lot more than I had expected. So no worries, I'm fine with "gtd cops". :)
About the tags: Personally, I don't need multiple degrees of priority and I'm not sure that it's such a good idea. For some time I tried Stephen Covey's method from "Seven Habits" (A1, A2, A3, B1, ... C3) but found that I spent too much time prioritizing and too little time getting things done. I then switched to just high, medium and low priorities but noticed that that didn't really work either. So after reading gtd I decided to do without priorities altogether. After all, one thing I took from it is that more is less. However, after some time I became aware that I had fallen into the "get 'things' done"-trap (rather than "get 'what matters most' done"). I had a great sense of accomplishment at night when I saw all the tasks I had checked off during the day. But the problem was that those more often than not were not the most important things. So that's why I'd like something visual that reminds me of the two or three things that are the most important tasks that day. And this really is more in keeping with gtd than one might think at first: If I sit down once every day, decide what matters most and "write it down" (i.e. flag the task), then it's out of my head, i.e. I don't have to go back to my list and keep re-deciding or remembering what the most important tasks are. Of course I could use a tag for that but then there would be no visual reminder (which in a sense functions as a tickler: "you really have to get this done today") and I'd have to filter every time I'd like to know what the most important tasks are. If they're flagged, all I have to do is glance at my list.
As for the "time/energy/context/priority" factors, this is one aspect I don't quite agree with. For one, many studies have shown (and many have experienced) that we're not very good with intuitively making good decisions about what to do next, as Allen claims. Moreover, if I want to get the 'most important things' done rather than just getting 'things' done, I often enough have to make time and energy and seek the context to do those things that have priority over other things (the classic case of putting rocks in the jar before pouring in the sand).
5 Posted by Proximo on 01 Apr, 2010 11:38 PM
@Lasse,
First I would like to mention that I am no GTD expert but just a user like yourself that appreciates what GTD does for me. As long as you are productive with GTD, you implemented it correctly for you. We will all have little difference and habits that work best for us and that is what makes GTD great to begin with.
Looking at your response with tagging something to remind you it's important, I will share what I do and see if it can be of use to you or not. Like I said, we all respond differently with technique and habits.
The Today list is where all the task that I decided to tackle today go. So what I do is drag the most import task of that day to the top and work my way down. Like you, I don't use tags for priority because I found it does not work for me. I rather scan my list, choose what's important for me to do, how much am I able to that day, drag them over to Today and then drag the most important task to the top. This has worked just fine for me and I always feel that I not only accomplish my task for the day, but I also knock out the most important onces along the way.
As for Time, Energy, Context and Priority. This technique works for me because I always look at the Priority part first. Like I said, I drag them to the top. But I also know about how long a particular task can take and if I have 30 minutes left before I leave the office, I may have a high priority item that will take at least 2 hours to complete. Most of the time if it's a high energy task as well that requires some serious focus, I rather not start it if I can't complete it because I will get out of the zone when I start it up again the next morning. So this is how I use the Time, Energy, Context and Priority to adjust what I am doing.
If I had 3 task that only take about 10 minutes to complete. I would switch gears at that time and knock out those 3 task before I go home. Although they are not as high in priority as my 2 hour task, I know it's best for me not to start something I can't finish. Now when I come in the next morning I can tackle that high energy 2 hour task without loosing focus and get it done much easier.
This is why I love the concept of Time, Energy, Context and Priority. Before GTD I would focus only on high priority task and I found that the lower priority task would never get done. They kept pilling up and distracted me with people constantly asking if I made progress on them. Just because they are not top priority does not mean someone is not waiting on it. I had new task coming in on a daily basis and usually a top priority task was among them. This process kept me only working on the top stuff and not the other stuff.
Using GTD I accomplish both by looking at task with Time, Energy, Context and Priority in mind. Sometimes I may have 2 hours but I simply have no Energy left. My brain shut down and if I try to tackle that 2 hour task before I go home, I may make mistakes because I was not in the right frame of mind to tackle it at the time. In this example I will again use Time, Energy, Context and Priority to decide what I could do most effectively at the moment.
I found that finishing a task with mistakes caused me more work that finishing it the next day with less to no mistakes. It's what worked for me and this is what David Allen is trying to teach with this approach.
This does not mean it works for everyone, but it sure worked for me.
Thank you for sharing. I found that I am most successful when I keep my mind open to learn from others. All of us will do things slightly different in many areas but what important is that we are doing what works for us. This however does not mean we can't learn from someone's different perspective or approach on something. I always learn from the input of others.
Thanks again.
P.S. I am not the GTD Cop. Just a friendly neighbor who is eager to help and learn at the same time. :-)
6 Posted by Lasse on 11 Apr, 2010 12:47 AM
@Proximo,
thanks for your reply. Having read how you're using Nirvana I think I can better explain my issue with "time/energy/context/priority" and why I want a visual reminder/tickler for my most important items.
This is me a few months ago: I arrive at work, check my schedule (three to five appointments of 45-90 minutes each day), look at my RTM todo list (automatically ordered by priority, top to bottom) and decide which task to tackle first. Since it's not always possible and doesn't always make sense to start with the most important task (because of time restraints for example) my first action will not necessarily be the first item on my list (i.e. the order of my tasks is not the order in which I am planning to get them done). So I have to make a decision. The context is clear, the priorities are already set, so there are time and energy to consider. But the energy level isn't fixed. Instead my energy is influenced by my motivation towards a certain task, i.e. the energy I can summon for calling Anne (low priority) is high, the energy for writing that report (high priority) is low. I unwisely choose to make that phone call real quick. Then what? Another decision to make, another chance to go the path of least resistance and choose the more pleasurable task over the more important one. The more decisions I have to make throughout the day and the more the day wears on, the more likely I am to make poor choices. Of course this is completely irrational. But that's the problem with procrastination. We know it doesn't make sense but keep doing it anyway (that's why I need tools like Nirvana to help me).
So what's the solution? For me a part of it is being able to manually order my tasks (which I couldn't do with RTM). That way I can sit down the night before and decide in one go what to do first, what second, and so on (based on the four factors). In other words my todo list is not ordered according to priority but the order in which I intend to get the tasks done (based on the four factors). Though this doesn't totally elimit my tendency to procrastinate, I find it helpful to be able to come to work, check my Nirvana todo list and simply do whatever is first on the list - no need to think, just do (because I've done the thinking and deciding in advance, at a time when my decision making is not as influenced by mood/motivation).
So far so good, but sometimes tasks take longer than expected and sometimes there are interruptions and unexpected events (yes, in my profession that's only sometimes :)). In those cases I won't be able to work through my list in perfect order from top to bottom. So again there's the danger of getting caught up in lesser things. That's why I find it helpful to have something visual to remind me and say "hey, this is what really needs to get done, no matter the order".
That way there's less of tendency to get caught up in things of lesser importance and also it's basically another way to have something (my priorities) out of my mind and "on paper" (in this case online). So to sum it up, since the order of your list seems to reflect both your priorities and the order in which you want to get to them, you only need one visual reminder - the actual ordered list. But since my today list's order does not reflect the tasks' priorities I would like to have a way to capture my thoughts about their priorities (to have them out of my mind and "on paper", or online, so to speak). Yes, tags could do this, but they wouldn't "tickle" me because I wouldn't see them like I'd see a star or a flag. An app that actually does this nicely is Appigo's Todo which offers both manual reordering and flagging (and OF for iPhone allows for this too, if I remember correctly).
So, this turned out somewhat long. I hope it makes sense at least. :)
Cheers
Lasse
P.S.: By the way, great to have such a friendly neighbor. :)
7 Posted by Proximo on 12 Apr, 2010 04:23 PM
@Lasse,
First I want to say that your post was great. I enjoy leaning how others think and use GTD because I can always learn something too.
I agree with just about everything you said and It seems the only difference is minor.
When I look at my Today list, I sort my task based on Priority, but this does not reflect the order I may actually tackle them. It seems that you like to sort your task in the order you will work them.
In my case, the visual location of my task will always remind me what's the top priorities but I consider my Time, Energy, Context and Priority at the moment when I choose which task to do. This may not always be the Top priority task or in my case, the task that is at the top. Because I don't see this list as the actual order I will work them, the visual reminder you are describing is built into my list.
Since you like to tackle the task in the order listed, which in some cases may have a high priority task below a medium priority task. You simply want some kind of visual flag to remind you what the priorities are.
Considering how you work with your Today list, I can fully understand you wanting to have some kind of flag and I don't really see anything wrong with that concept. I use it a little differently and the visual reminder is built into how I sort my task.
One thing you may want to consider is to sort your task by Priority while understanding that it's not always the actual order you will tackle them. This can hold you over until Nirvana decides if this is something they want to implement or not. Not sure how many others would have a similar request as yours.
GTD looks at Priorities differently than other systems, but each individual has their preference when it comes to this and I completely understand your situation and would agree that a visual flag would be nice.
I hope my idea can maybe help you for now. :-)
8 Posted by Jenn on 25 Apr, 2010 03:59 AM
+1 for the visual priority option (using a flag or my preference: a star)
I rely heavily on physical prompts, and I think the visual cue would be extremely helpful.
Support Staff 9 Posted by Christiane Magee on 04 May, 2010 08:17 PM
Great discussion guys. Anyone else want to add their 2cents to this one?
Admittedly we haven't thought about adding this feature.
10 Posted by roddyt on 04 May, 2010 09:00 PM
Well, since you asked :)
I can understand Lasse's interest in this, though personally it's not something I think I would use. It does seem innocuous enough though, that I wouldn't mind it.
Let me throw out an alternative idea. How about the ability to bold a task, or perhaps change the text to a different color ( or both, as the color idea alone may not work for color blind people). It could be a selection from the task's pull down.
I like this idea because it eliminates the extraneous graphic that people like me won't use.
Roddy
11 Posted by Lasse on 04 May, 2010 10:16 PM
@Proximo: I never got around to thanking you for your last post here. I felt perfectly understood... :) And thanks for your suggestions (even though I'm sticking with ordering by actual order rather than by priority after having tried both).
@roddyt: Good to see people are mindful of those with color vision deficiency - I happen to be one of them. :) As for your suggestion, being able to change the type to bold would work just as well for me. In fact, it might indeed be the more elegant solution (exactly because it would leave out the extraneous graphic).
Even though I've added more than my two cents, here are a few more thoughts:
When Appigo updated Todo to include this function (i.e. "flagging" tasks - actually they use a star) my first thought was "clutter". But a few weeks later when I started tweaking my system, I realized that the stars could be really helpful. And it turned out that I really like that function despite my initial objections. And obviously there must have been enough people who requested that feature in the first place.
As for the question of how to implement it: As I mentioned, I like roddyt's suggestion. But I also like how Appigo does it as opposed to how Google does it: Unlike in Gmail where the star is always there whether you use it or not (and therefore adds clutter), in Appigo's Todo the star is nowhere to be seen unless you edit a task. Then, if you select a task (or multiple tasks) you can tap on the star and it will be displayed to the right. If implemented this way, no one would be bothered by this function.
Lasse
David McLaughlin closed this discussion on 04 Feb, 2011 02:32 AM.