Project tasks in different Focus lists
At the moment, I can have tasks in a project that are either in Next, Today, Scheduled or Waiting. I can not put any of the project tasks in Someday though, which is a feature that I miss (that I can not put the task in Later does not bother me, since it is a list that I do not use).
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2 Posted by martin.tyler on 20 Jul, 2010 06:50 PM
This has been discussed elsewhere..
Technically it is not part of a project if it is someday/maybe since a project has a well defined outcome
However, for most people the reality is a project does have some 'optional' tasks
3 Posted by Elurven on 20 Jul, 2010 08:45 PM
Yes I suspected that this might have been discussed previously. But with such a vibrant community, I am finding it difficult to keep up with all of the discussion threads, my bad ;-).
4 Posted by Proximo on 21 Jul, 2010 04:43 AM
I don't use someday task in my projects because they are not needed for a successful outcome.
If something is not actionable, it goes in the someday list and not the next list or project list.
This is my opinion on the matter and I understand that everyone has their own way of doing things. I am more of a GTD Purist I guess.
5 Posted by haeffb on 21 Jul, 2010 12:55 PM
@Proximo - But there does need to be a way to distinguish between project tasks that are next actions and those that are not. Whether you call those "someday project tasks" or "later project tasks" or "project tasks that aren't next actions" is a matter of semantics, but there needs to be at least two (preferably three and possibly four) buckets in a project:
Next Action
Not Next Action (Someday, Later, whatever)
Next Actions could also be subdivided into "Today" tasks (third bucket)
And you could also include an Inbox for your projects (fourth bucket)
6 Posted by roddyt on 21 Jul, 2010 05:04 PM
@haeffb,
What you're talking about is a slightly different subject. Not all project tasks are Next Actions (e.g., you can't "hang the picture" until you "buy the hooks"). There are many of us who want to be able to make this distinction so "hang the picture" will not clutter the Next list until it becomes a Next Action.
This is different than a Someday task. The difference is that "hang the picture" is integral to the successful completion of the project and has to be done, it's just not able to be done at the moment.
A Someday task is not necessary to complete the project, but it's something you may want to do, such as "consider re-framing the picture."
I just wanted to draw the distinction. There are a lot of posts around asking for what you describe. I personally wouldn't add a Someday task to a project, but if it were enabled in a simple way, it doesn't matter to me.
7 Posted by haeffb on 21 Jul, 2010 05:39 PM
@roddyt, I understand and agree. Just saying that what you call the "not next actions" really doesn't matter - whether it's "Someday", "Later", "Zebra", or "Emily" - the important thing, the critical thing, is to be able to separate project tasks into those that ARE next actions and those that AREN'T. Which we currently can't do.
8 Posted by Proximo on 22 Jul, 2010 10:35 PM
Projects have Actionable Task in them. The only reason it became a project is because it required more than one Next Action, which means you can't do them both at the same time and therefore it becomes a project.
You mark the task that are Next Actions and they show up in the Next list, but all the other project task are in fact Actionable Task and would never be Someday/Maybe task.
All Project task are Actionable, but only one can be a Next Action for Sequential task and more than one can be a Next Action for Parallel task.
9 Posted by haeffb on 22 Jul, 2010 11:07 PM
@Proximo,
I agree that projects have Actionable Tasks. But not all of them are (currently, usually) Next Actions. Some of them are something other than Next Actions.
What would you propose to call them? Actionable Tasks That Aren't Next? They're not tasks I can do Now, so they're not Next Actions and don't belong in the Next list. If you divide the project tasks into NA's and (Somethings), you need a title for the (Somethings). What would that title be? Someday sort of fits. Later fits. Emily doesn't really fit, but I'll take it if that's the only option.
Whatever it is, it's just semantics - they are what they are, which is tasks that you can't do at the moment. My point is that I don't care what they're called by Nirvana as long as I can separate a Project's NA's from the Project's not-NA's.
10 Posted by Proximo on 23 Jul, 2010 02:26 AM
@haeffb,
I agree with you.
The only task that should show up in the Next list are NA's. The other project task are Actionable but not currently a Next Action, so they remain in the Project list only.
In GTD, there is no special name for the task related to a Project. They are in there because they are ALL Actionable, but you only work on the one(s) you choose to be the Next Action(s). When the Next Action is completed, the Actionable task that follows it becomes the Next Action. (For sequential projects). For Projects that have parallel task, you usually still have sequential task as well. The only difference is that you can pick more than one Next Action in this case. This is straight GTD Methodology here.
They are not Someday or Later task, just because they are not currently a Next Action. David Allen makes this clear in his book.
This Later List is really starting to mess up Nirvana's "Nirvana"..... It's not GTD and it's going to confuse a bunch of people.
If Nirvana decides to allow Someday task in Projects, it will be another feature that will pull it away from the GTD Methodology. If this continues, I fear that Nirvana will fall apart as a great GTD service and I will have to move on once again.
I have a lot riding on this service because I recommended it to many people and to start seeing things like the "Later List" and mentions of allowing Someday task into Project, I am starting to feel like it's going down hill.
Sorry. Had to mention it because it was on my mind.
GTD is simple.
11 Posted by Elurven on 23 Jul, 2010 06:19 AM
@Proximo: You have me convinced. I realize that Someday tasks do not belong in a project (although I think that you should be able to put an entire project into the Someday list).
As far as Next Actions go in a project, here's an idea. If you look at a project, the Today tasks are marked with a star. How about marking Next tasks right below that with a blue circle (unless, of course, the Today task in the project is also the only Next task). By doing so, projects can have several Next actions (for parallell actions for instance). The blue circle would also take away the need to add a visual divider in the projects to separate Next actions from the rest of the actions. This is also the reason why the idea of the unified Next list appeals to me, since you can get rid of all of the pesky dividers ;-).
12 Posted by martin.tyler on 23 Jul, 2010 07:59 AM
@Elurven
It's been said a number of times, but just to make it clear, i agree with how you describe selecting next actions.
I want to keep the order i define in my project, so dragging to define next actions isnt so good - marking them in some way, similar to 'today' is best.
The actual detail of how this would work i think Nirvana can come up with a good way - i think i like the idea of seeing a list of tasks in a project, the next actions highlighted more than the other actions - eg in bold, or a different foreground or background colour.
13 Posted by Elurven on 23 Jul, 2010 08:07 AM
@martin.tyler: Yes, marking Next actions manually in the Projects lists is something that I would prefer as well. Similar to how you mark Today tasks with a star.
The blue circle was just to demonstrate the point and the Nirvana crew will probably come up with something that will make us all go "Yes that it is exactly how this feature should be implemented" ;-).
14 Posted by roddyt on 23 Jul, 2010 12:15 PM
@Elurven and @martin.tyler,
I'm with you on marking Next Actions. I was originally plugging the idea of having separate panes where you would drag NAs into their own list. I now recognize the value of having only one list of all actions together in the project (as it is now), and be able to mark the NAs.
15 Posted by Proximo on 23 Jul, 2010 03:10 PM
Marking Next Actions seems to be very easy for most people to understand.
+1
16 Posted by gary.morin on 26 Jul, 2010 01:23 PM
+1 for marking Next actions in projects.
Can I then assume, when you click on the next actions list, you will only see next action tasks, whethere they are standalone tasks or part of a project.
Personally in the next action list, I would like to see all my next action tasks, project based or not. For those in a project, I would just prefix the task name with the project name.
17 Posted by roddyt on 26 Jul, 2010 05:07 PM
@gary.morin
We can't assume anything as none of this has been implemented, or promised. But what you describe is exactly what a lot of us are asking for. With the small exception of the detail in your last sentence.
The common suggestion is that the Next list would have the same UI as the Today list, which means the project would be identified in blue text after the task, and could be clicked to bring you directly to the project. But other than the detail, it's still what you're asking for.
18 Posted by Proximo on 27 Jul, 2010 02:29 PM
Here is a link to another discussion that has a video link showing what roddyt just described.
http://help.nirvanahq.com/discussions/suggestions/447-unified-next-...
19 Posted by Lasse on 27 Jul, 2010 09:33 PM
Isn't it funny how discussions about all kinds of different topics end up as discussions about the Next list? Looks like people really want a Unified Next List! ;-)
Support Staff 20 Posted by Elbert McLaughlin on 04 Aug, 2010 01:56 PM
We're almost there. Unified lists are part of the next major release, to coincide with the public API rollout.
21 Posted by Lasse on 04 Aug, 2010 02:03 PM
Fantastic!
As for the API, I've already written to Appigo to suggest adding Nirvana as an option for syncing (even though Todo would ideally need to make a few adjustments to make it work nicely).
22 Posted by Proximo on 04 Aug, 2010 06:02 PM
Great news Elbert.
I will follow Lasse in suggesting Appigo to add Nirvana as an option. I already own their great iPhone app and it's structured for GTD very nicely. Lasse is correct in that some adjustments will need to be made, but If they can make Appigo Todo work with Toodledo, they can make it work with anything. :-)
David McLaughlin closed this discussion on 03 Feb, 2011 04:27 AM.