Nirvana 2: Where is the Unified Next List?
@Elbert
I was out of the office for 3 days caring for my sick little girl. I am finally back and taking N2 through it's passes.
First I want to say that it looks fantastic and it's a major improvement over an already great web application. Give me some time to read others comments and take it for a spin.
You mentioned something about the Unified Next List and why it was not designed the way many of us where hoping. Thank you for the explanation but I can't for the life of me figure out what would be difficult about sorting a single list of Next Actions.
What I find weird is sorting two list of Next Actions. I don't care for the separation because I like to sort my task by priority regardless of what type of task it is.
Now when I look at my top 10 task, I am really not seeing the clear picture because I have to scroll all the way down to the Projects area to see the priorities of the Next Actions for projects.
So now which is the top Next Action? Not sure because I have two of them. Same for 2, 3, 4, etc.
I would much rather see one Unified Next List which is what I was hoping for the most. I understand there where some challenges and maybe this simply does not work but I don't care for the current implementation. As I opened the new Nirvana 2, the one feature I was so excited about was the UNL and when I realized that it did not make it, I was severely disappointed.
In my opinion, the UNL would be the most simplistic way of doing a Next List that would allow for you to sort, look at and manage all your Next Actions.
I was looking forward to the Next Actions that belonged to Projects having the project link to the right of the task, just like the Focus list.
For what it's worth, I wanted to let you know that I don't like it but it is a Major improvement over the older method.
You guys have done a wonderful job with Nirvana 2 and please don't take my comments in the wrong way. It's just that a kid was waiting for a huge lollipop that was to be delivered and when the package arrived, I found only a stick with a little sucker on top.
:-(
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62 Posted by Lasse on 18 Nov, 2010 09:00 PM
@Elbert, I hope we're not coming off as ungrateful here! With all of the bug reports, questions about N2 and suggestions for improving some of the new functions, I'm not sure if all the good vibes most of us are feeling since the release of the N2 preview are really coming accross! I think that Next in N2 is an improvement over what we previously had and I'm excited about all the other great new features (especially the attention to many little details). The UNL as described above would simly make Nirvana even better, but even as it is, it's the best app I've ever used! As for recurring tasks, I do think that the UNL is more important. And although I know nothing about coding, it seems like we're VERY close to the UNL many of us have been asking for.
63 Posted by martin.tyler on 18 Nov, 2010 09:11 PM
@Elbert - how long it is taking is not the issue, I know software development, things take time.
The frustrating thing is that now and then, when we do get feedback it never sounds like the plan is to implement it how most of us seem to want it. I'm sure you said just the other day that you tried manually managing which tasks were 'next' and you didnt like it so you dropped it.
Everyone has different priorities, but for me this is way higher than recurring tasks.
Support Staff 64 Posted by Elbert McLaughlin on 18 Nov, 2010 09:33 PM
Here's my take.
If there's a workaround, then you're not dead in the water. Using Later is not ideal, but it's a stopgap that works.
About 5% of users who tried to migrate are unable to use N2. That's a show stopper. Given that there are 40,000+ user accounts that's a huge number that we aren't able to bring over at the moment.
Also, there is no workaround for the lack of recurring tasks, and from a business perspective, we get a LOT of people saying this is the deal-breaker for them, and they won't consider Nirvana until we have it.
And... there is no workaround for the lack of filtering on mobile... and about 1/4 of our users use the mobile app as their primary device for Nirvana.
So... I'm gonna refrain from posting any more about the UNL until we get close to tackling it. It's not that we don't get it. It's just not at the top top top of the heap. I know people on this thread are wicked passionate about this, and I hear everyone, believe me. (It's kinda hard not to ;-)
But this is all a delicate balancing act for us. No matter where we focus our resources we are guaranteed to have constituencies that feel slighted. Please don't take it personally!
65 Posted by Lasse on 18 Nov, 2010 09:41 PM
@Elbert, thanks for shedding some light on this. Although I'm really looking forward to the UNL, I'm glad that there is a workaround.
40,000?! Wow, that's quite a jump since "the hockey stick"! Has Proximo really started such an exodus over at ToodleDo? :-)
Support Staff 66 Posted by Elbert McLaughlin on 18 Nov, 2010 09:48 PM
Oh, and one more thing... If you see something get implemented that you consider waaaay less important than UNL (or any other feature for that matter), please don't interpret this as though we considered it the most important thing. Features / bug fixes are being broken down into very atomic bite-size chunks, so that they can get cranked out in rapid succession, and when they are done, we ship. Sometimes we nail several things in a release, sometimes it's half of a fix, but better than nothing... as at least we're always moving forward.
Come to think of it, how very GTD of us. ;-)
67 Posted by Proximo on 21 Nov, 2010 02:48 AM
@Elbert
Completely understand.
I will use the Sequential Next list for now until you guys get a chance to look at the UNL and determine how and if you want to make any adjustments to it.
Thanks for the fantastic application you created.
@Lasse
My GTD Implementation at Toodledo is still one of the most read and used post for people that practice GTD there. Obviously, many people can see from my post that I came over to Nirvana, so a lot of them have followed me here.
I still have video links about using Toodledo on my Youtube channel that get many views.
Toodledo is a great service as I mentioned many times before. It's just not for GTD. :-)
68 Posted by hallucngn on 21 Nov, 2010 12:02 PM
I think the 'focus' list confuses a little bit. I've personally never used it. 'Focus' and 'next actions' are in terms of GTD exactly the same. They are the next things to do. There's no difference between them.
Now If someone has 15 projects with 10 tasks each, he has 150 tasks. If he uses the 'unified list', he will see 150 tasks in the 'next' list, but that's not how it should work. Seeing all 150 tasks belongs to the 'projects' list. I think people using the 'focus' list do not see this problem, because they treat 'focus' as 'next actions'. 'Next' should have next actions only, exactly like 'focus'.
I agree, the sequential list is the closest to UNL. Anyway N2 looks like a good improvement.
69 Posted by Proximo on 21 Nov, 2010 01:33 PM
@hallucngn
The Focus list is simply a way to filter the noise out and only show you what you currently have committed too.
It's not like the Next list at all.
Let me give you an example:
I have some Waiting for task that are needing other people to take action on. During a Weekly Review I decide to follow up on some of them so I star them and they show in my Focus list.
In my Focus list I see the Next Actions I decided to work on but I can also see a Waiting for task that I wanted to follow up on. It's a much nicer view of what you need to FOCUS on during your day.
The UNL is not working as it should because it should only show Next Actions for Single task and Projects.
The Sequential list works well but I hate the gap separation
The true UNL will work like the Sequential list with no gap for projects and with the option of adding more than one Next Action for a project if the task can be done in parallel to another.
That's basically what we are waiting for but Elbert is busy at the moment.
Another advantage of the Focus list is that I can see only the few task I want to tackle and not the entire 150 task on the list that will distract me. The Focus list is great in my opinion.
Also remember that Scheduled task do not show up in your Next list because you decided to take action on a particular day. When that day arrives, they automatically show up in the Focus list.
I can't live without the Foucs list. It's my center of focus for things I am doing now.
70 Posted by Alex on 24 Nov, 2010 10:19 PM
@elbert
About 5% of users who tried to migrate are unable to use N2. That's a showstopper. Given that there are 40,000+ user accounts that's a huge number that we aren't able to bring over at the moment.I am worried that you are going to spend weeks/months of precious time trying to figure out 100 different fixes for 100 different migration problems while N2 bugs/features languish. It is my opinion, and this may be a contentious idea, that you do want you can to migrate as much as possible of N1 content and then cut your losses. N2 preview is sitting here and attracting a new audience (it's a new release after all) but the bugs and missing N1 implementations are going to turn new people off. You only get ONE change to make a first impression.
To me (and I may be alone in this) it's more important to have Nirvana 2 become all it can be sooner rather than have it perfectly migrate all of my data from N1. When I joined NirvanaHQ I joined with the full understanding that it's a BETA program and, as such, there is zero guarantee that my data will survive. If some of my data doesn't migrate properly, so be it. After all, tons of people have joined from other services (such as Toodletodo, etc) without an import facility.
To be clear, this comment has nothing to do with UNL. I perfectly understand if it's not at the top of the list (it's not top of my list either). I just wanted to express my opinion that if perfect migration of my data in N1 is not possible, I'm OK with that, if that means that N2 becomes all that it can be sooner.... :-)
David McLaughlin closed this discussion on 11 Feb, 2011 11:23 AM.